"Respectful Challenge" of Ashraf Dehghani and Oriana Fallaci at Shadi Amin's Dinner Party

Host: Shadi Amin. Guests: Majid Sidi, Susan Amin, Oriana Fallaci, Golrokh Jahangiri, Ashraf Dehghani. Music: Goodbye, sung by Haydeh. Dinner: Istanbul Pilaf. This week's host is Shadi Amin, an activist in the women's and LGBTQ rights movements, previously a supporter of the minority Fadaiyan Khalq guerrilla organization. She currently works with two organizations, Justice for Iran and Six Colors, and has published several books. Her latest book is titled Gender X, which discusses the experiences of LGBTQ individuals and transgender people in Iran. She has also conducted extensive research on sexual violence against female political prisoners in the Islamic Republic, published as The Unpunished Crime in two volumes. Shadi Amin lives in Frankfurt, Germany. Welcome to the program. Can you tell me who the guests you invited for dinner are? For tonight's dinner, I invited Majid Sidi and Susan Amin. Oriana Fallaci is the special guest. I invited Golrokh Jahangiri, along with Ashraf Dehghani, who is certainly well-known to many, including yourself. We will talk later about who these guests are, why you invited them, and what your interest in them is. But before that, I would like to ask what music you have chosen for them? The music I chose may seem strange, but I would like a song by Haydeh. Of course, I will mention later that Golrokh Jahangiri is a singer and will warm up the party with her voice, but I want to play a song by Haydeh because my mother loved her very much, and in a way, we grew up with Haydeh's music. Therefore, considering her voice, which I love, I want to play a song by Haydeh. Which song do you have in mind? Shadi Amin: Goodbye. The chosen music: Bright Days Goodbye, singer: Haydeh, lyricist: Ardalan Sarafraz, composer: Farid Zolandeh, arrangement: Ando. The song [Bright Days] Goodbye. I am not very familiar with some parts of the lyrics, but I really love this song. So let's play this song by Haydeh. Did your mother love Haydeh? She loved Haydeh very much, and in our house, the tape recorder was always loud with Haydeh's voice, and she would sing along. She still sings and even resembles Haydeh a lot. My mother is a beautiful woman and sewed clothes similar to hers. Back then, there were celebrations, and they would go to places where Haydeh performed; many thought she was Haydeh's sister. She sewed clothes similar to hers. She was a seamstress. Yes, Haydeh always reminds me of home. Home and mom and... Exactly. Your first guest is Majid Sidi, who perhaps many of our listeners do not know. Who is Majid and why is he important to you? Majid Sidi (1958-1981): A supporter of the Fadaiyan Khalq organization. Reason for invitation: He was a comrade during my political activity. He was a useful person, and there were many things that needed to be said to him. Majid was my comrade during the time I was politically active and worked with the minority Fadaiyan Khalq organization in Iran. Majid was my friend. Later, in 1981, he was arrested and executed on December 24. He was a very kind person, and his absence is felt in gatherings I encounter. I particularly feel his absence in Karaj. But the reason I want Majid to be here is that there were many things that needed to be said to him, and he was a useful person. A while ago, I found someone from Karaj and asked him to send me a photo of Majid's gravestone, who is buried in Bibi Sakineh, Karaj. When he sent the photo, I became very sad because I did not know that Majid's birth date is exactly the same as the day of his execution. Majid was executed at the age of 23 on December 24. That is, his birthday and execution day are the same. This was an additional pain for me when I saw that he was executed on his birthday. These injustices really did not even consider how much the pain his mother felt at Majid's execution would be compounded by this issue. This made me think a lot. I want Majid to be here. Majid is my friend and the only man at this dinner. Yes, that’s right; the other four are women. The second guest is Susan Amin, who shares your first and last name. Are you related? Susan Amin: Shadi Amin's older sister. Reason for invitation: Due to leaving Iran, I could not easily visit my mother and sister, and I wanted Susan to represent the entire family at the dinner. Yes, Susan Amin is my sister. In fact, I invited her because we who live in exile might understand this better. I really wanted to... because I left home very early. I had to leave Iran early. One of my wishes was to be able to go home to my mom's house and my sister's house in the evening and benefit from their kindness. I did not have that chance. I wanted Susan to be at the dinner on behalf of the entire family. Because she is certainly a good cook and will probably help with dessert and so on, and in any case, she will warm the gathering with her kindness. Is Susan your older sister? Yes. Did you fight? Did she boss you around? Susan: Yes. She would give us orders about keeping the house clean and tidy, but I was not a very obedient child, and naturally, I did not listen to her. She was kind and would quickly move on from the subject. Your third guest is Oriana Fallaci, the great Italian journalist. Why her? Oriana Fallaci (1929-2006): Italian writer and journalist. Fame: A series of detailed interviews with world political leaders, including Mohammad Reza Shah and Ayatollah Khomeini. Works: Life, War and Nothing Else, Letter to a Child Who Was Never Born, The Weak Sex, Interview with History. Reason for invitation: Her books had a significant impact on me during my adolescence, and her books were my refuge. In my adolescence, her books had a great impact on me. They served as a bridge between my personal life, which I could not discuss with many, and my political life, which I also could not discuss with many because it was secret. Fallaci's books were my refuge at many points. I read some of them two or three times, even though I usually do not read books repeatedly. I admired her courage, her reports, and her work. But there was another reason: she interviewed the Shah and later interviewed Khomeini. In fact, this woman interviewed two people who played roles in Iran's history, each in their own way. Her famous interview with the Shah, where she asks about women's rights, and the Shah responds. What does she ask the Shah, and what does he answer? If I remember correctly, she asks his opinion about women, and the Shah gives an answer that was later ridiculed a lot, saying that yes, women are less than men. If you look, even the famous chefs in the world are men. He gives this answer while Farah is sitting next to him. I mean, even a good chef... is a man for the Shah... The second interview, where she went with a headscarf to Nofel Louchateau and interviewed Khomeini, where she also asks about women's rights, and Khomeini, as usual, with that big lie that everyone is free in Iran and even Marxists are free, talks about women being free. Of course, Oriana Fallaci goes with a headscarf and conducts the interview. In fact, her dual presence at two stages of Iran's history and with these people is interesting to me. I think Oriana Fallaci tells him that I was forced to wear a headscarf. Exactly. And Oriana Fallaci is considered your colleague. She was a great journalist who prepared important reports from wars around the world. I think she went to Vietnam and has reports. But I said that for me, she was a refuge. Her books were very well translated. She is my guest tonight, but I think we might have a language barrier. Although I think she might know a few words of Persian. Yes. She has spoken with both the Shah and Khomeini and probably knows a few words of Persian. I remember she was one of the bravest reporters in the world and prepared war reports. At one time, like Christiane Amanpour, who is famous now, she was very well-known in her time. Yes, maybe even more. Because I don't think there is anyone who hasn't heard the name Oriana Fallaci. Especially Iranians because of her translations, and in Europe as well. We come to your next guest, Golrokh Jahangiri. Who is Golrokh for those who may not know her? Golrokh Jahangiri: Iranian women's rights activist and singer. Reason for invitation: She is my thirty-year friend. She has been a political prisoner, and her husband, Hassan Jahangiri, was executed. I invited Golrokh because she is my thirty-year friend. She is a singer and also a women's rights activist. She has worked in other fields as well. I want Golrokh to be here. She is a kind person. She is straightforward and simple. She is my dear friend, with all the bitterness we have experienced in our thirty-year friendship. I have always relied on her, and in any case, I want her to be here. Her presence tonight is to appreciate all the efforts she has made. She has been a political prisoner, and her husband, Hassan Jahangiri, was executed. Golrokh is a very kind person, and I felt it would be a shame for her not to be here tonight on behalf of many other dear people I know. Golrokh's songs are mostly political, right? Golrokh worked in a group called Fitneh for a period, and there they were only a group of women who worked on cheerful Iranian songs and many others and local songs, only in gatherings where the audience was women. Later, she worked on the issue of historical memory. On the day of the prison songs, she produced two CDs with great effort and performs songs on occasions related to the 1988 massacre or prisons and killings in Iran. But Golrokh's style of work is interesting to me because she does not come on stage in the way we all know. Golrokh, despite her political songs, has a very different presence on stage. For example, she comes on stage in very elegant clothing... because many friends might not like it! Exactly, it has been controversial. She comes on stage in a low-cut dress and very stylishly and performs these songs with pride and power. For this reason, Golrokh is someone who has her own methods for breaking taboos and has worked very hard. Your last guest is Ashraf Dehghani, who has become a great legend in the history of the left movement in Iran due to her escape from prison. Why did you invite Ashraf? Ashraf Dehghani (1949): Leader of the Fadaiyan Khalq. Works: Epic of Resistance, In Struggle Against Silence, Repentance; A New Phenomenon in Prison, Seeds of Eternity. Reason for invitation: With her book Epic of Resistance, she inspired a generation to fight. Today, I disagree with many of her methods and ideas, but I think if she is present tonight, I will have many questions to ask her. Ashraf Dehghani... you can confirm my words... with her book Epic of Resistance, published in the early days of the 1979 Revolution, she inspired a generation to fight. A generation that many of them became supporters of the same organization that Ashraf Dehghani spoke about, supporters of the Fadaiyan Khalq organization. In addition to the resistance that Ashraf shows us, demonstrating that women can also be involved, it is important for me that Ashraf Dehghani, during that period, does what we feel the lack of today more than ever, turning to written memoirs and publishing an experience in writing. This work of hers is very valuable to me. While today I naturally disagree with many of her methods and ideas, I think that if she is present here tonight, it is an opportunity to see someone whom no one or very few have had the chance to meet closely and to ask many questions that I have. After the revolution, she also separated from the Fadaiyan Khalq organization because she did not agree with their methods and believed that we should continue armed struggle. Is that correct? Yes, and the only thing that was important for us at that time was that her position was anti-Islamic Republic, and she said from the beginning that she does not accept the regime and the government. What food do you want to prepare for them? I tried not to spend too much time in the kitchen because I said we have busy days. During these days we are conducting this interview, many people have been arrested in Iran, and the situation is very bad. With the work I am doing these days, I am involved with them. But still, I prepared a proper meal for them. What did you make? I made Istanbul pilaf. Oh, how nice... in my own style. And this can definitely be served with pickles, yogurt, and herbs. How do you make it? Do you have a special method? I invite all the listeners of this program to a duel of Istanbul pilaf. Of course, my favorite dish is barberry rice with chicken, but Istanbul pilaf is good because if you have a vegetarian guest, it won't be a problem. Maybe Oriana Fallaci is a vegetarian. How do you make it? I sauté the onions well until they are golden... not burnt and not raw. The sizes should be uniform and not too much. I don't like Istanbul pilaf that has too much moisture. I cut the potatoes into cubes... like sugar cubes... and fry them well with a lot of onions, then add tomatoes and tomato paste and various spices, and I definitely strain the rice and make the bottom crust.