The Melody of Humanity's Freedom at Abdul Karim Lahiji's Dinner

Host: Abdul Karim Lahiji Guests: Hafez, Dr. Mossadegh, Victor Hugo, Martin Luther King, and Hannah Arendt Music: 'The Bird of Dawn' sung by Mohammad Reza Shajarian Dinner Menu: Rice and Eggplant Stew This week's host is Abdul Karim Lahiji. Mr. Lahiji is a lawyer and one of the most experienced human rights defenders in Iran. He obtained his doctorate in law from Tehran University and represented many political prisoners during the previous regime, including Ayatollah Taleghani, Dariush Forouhar, and Shapour Bakhtiar. A few years before the revolution, he founded the Iranian Society for the Defense of Freedom and Human Rights along with other lawyers in Tehran. After the revolution, he rejected Bazargan's offer for the Ministry of Justice in his government and was one of the first to condemn the early executions of the revolution. He was then forced to leave Iran for France. In France, he continued his human rights activities and was elected president of the International Federation for Human Rights a few years ago. Mr. Lahiji is a staunch opponent of the death penalty. He lives in the suburbs of Paris, and I spoke with him at his home. Mr. Lahiji, welcome to the program. First of all, please tell me about the guests you have chosen for your dinner party. About Abdul Karim Lahiji: He is a lawyer and one of the most experienced human rights defenders in Iran. He founded the Iranian Society for the Defense of Freedom and Human Rights before the revolution and was one of the first to condemn the early executions of the revolution. Mr. Lahiji is a staunch opponent of the death penalty and currently lives in the suburbs of Paris. Hafez, Dr. Mossadegh, Victor Hugo, Martin Luther King, and Hannah Arendt. Very good. You have a diverse group of guests from Iranian, French, American, and German backgrounds. You will surely explain later why these guests are important to you. But first, tell us what music you want to play for these guests. 'The Bird of Dawn' by the great poet Malek al-Shoara Bahar, sung by my dear friend Shajarian, whom I am very concerned about his health. In this song, even though it is a hundred years old, there is a concept of social democracy and human rights. It speaks of the oppression of the landlord and the injustice of the time, meaning it has a materialistic aspect as well. Oh God, oh fate, oh nature, and also that it is the melody of humanity's freedom. When we see that a poet a hundred years ago in Iran speaks like this, it resonates with me, especially when my other friend Shajarian sings it. Now let's return to the guests you have chosen. The first one you mentioned is Hafez. Why did you choose him and what significance does he hold for you? You see, all five guests have had a significant impact on my upbringing, education, career choice, thoughts, and life. Why Hafez? Because since I was five or six years old, my father taught me a ghazal of Hafez every morning, and the next day he would ask me about it, not to memorize it, but to discuss it. Therefore, from the age of five or six, it has influenced my ears and my upbringing that 'The comfort of both worlds is the interpretation of these two words: Be kind to friends and be moderate with enemies.' The way he views the religious merchants, those who are devoted and pious. 'The jurist of the school was drunk and gave a fatwa that wine is forbidden but better than the endowment's wealth.' This is a dialectic. The jurist is drunk. We have heard that they say drunkenness and truth. Because he was drunk, he speaks the truth that wine is forbidden but better than the endowment's wealth. This means that from the age of seven or eight, my world, my personality, and my thoughts were shaped in such a way. You think that the verse you read about the drunk jurist shows that Hafez saw the jurists of his time as hypocrites, and this is well expressed, and that is why you love him? Absolutely. Because they were religious merchants. They were those who introduced religion in a way that suited their own interests and positions, and unfortunately, they dominated the thoughts and minds of people in such a way that they could exploit them. Do you think that the enduring nature of Hafez's poetry and your current interest in him is due to the fact that his poetry from six hundred years ago still relates to today's world? That is why this seventy-year-old poetry that has been with me, and unfortunately, without it being fate, the world has always been a collection of wars and power relations, and therefore with this view, you can still find the world bearable for yourself. Now let’s move on to your second guest, Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh. Mohammad Mossadegh (1261 to 1345 SH): Lawyer, politician, and Prime Minister of Iran Fame: Leadership of the oil nationalization movement Reason for invitation: For me, Mossadegh is not just a political leader; he is, above all, an intellectual leader. An intellectual leader who spoke one message throughout his life: the rule of law. My father's house was in the center of Tehran in Hasannabad Square, which was not far from Mossadegh's house. When I was still in sixth grade, the issue of nationalizing the oil industry and Mossadegh's premiership and all the events took place around our house, such as the events of July 30, the lowering of the Shah's statue, Sina Hospital, which was behind our house, where they took all the wounded, and finally the coup of August 28. Therefore, I found my personality in such an environment at the age of eleven or twelve. After the coup of August 28, which was sixty years ago, I can still hear the sounds of the cannons hitting Mossadegh's house. A few months later, Mossadegh's trial began in the military court. Our house received many magazines and newspapers, including the magazine 'Khandaniha' which showed pictures of Mossadegh with the same coat he wore and that aggression he had in his defenses against General Azmoudeh, the military prosecutor. I saw Mossadegh in the middle of two military men, and it was written below that Colonel Shahgholi and Colonel Bozorgmehr were Mossadegh's defense lawyers. I didn’t understand what it meant and why the military were lawyers in the court… How old were you at that time? Thirteen. Later, when I asked, I don’t know if it was my father or my uncle, who was very close to me—although he was a Tudeh member, he never managed to make me a Tudeh member—they said that in military courts, only military lawyers can defend. That day, at the age of thirteen, I decided to study law and become a lawyer. You see, each of these five people has influenced my life. Now, how do you see Mossadegh's role as a political leader that you want him to be one of your guests? For me, Mossadegh is not just a political leader; he is, above all, an intellectual leader. An intellectual leader who spoke one message throughout his life: the rule of law. And throughout his life, he adhered to principles. Mossadegh was a supporter of the rule of law until the moment he said in the military court that he did not intend to act against the Shah because if I had not sworn allegiance to the Shah, I would have sworn allegiance to ensure that his rule, considering that it is based on heredity, was not illegal, and I even stamped the Quran and gave it to him. His entire life was based on this line, and in my opinion, there has been no such character in Iranian history. You have been involved in human rights for a long time and are a lawyer. The rule of law is so important to you that you think it is Mossadegh's most prominent feature. In my opinion, it is the only guarantee for human life. The opposite of the rule of law is the law of the jungle. Even a bad law? Yes, even a bad law. Because we saw the result after the Islamic Revolution. Because Mossadegh was tried in the military court and many others. I, as a judicial lawyer, could not defend in those courts except for one year before the revolution. But in any case, it was a court, it was a military court, and they were condemned. But later we saw what atrocities unfortunately emerged from the so-called Sharia courts that Khalghali and Mohammad Gilani ran under Khomeini's supervision. Therefore, yes, I prefer even a bad law to lawlessness. Your third guest is Victor Hugo, one of the great writers of France, the country where you live. Victor Hugo (1802 to 1885): Poet, playwright, and French writer Works: Les Misérables, The Hunchback of Notre-Dame, The Man Who Laughs, The Last Day of a Condemned Man, and other works Reason for invitation: I know Victor Hugo first as a novelist and then as a political and social figure, and before I entered law school, I was influenced by Hugo's writings and became an opponent of the death penalty. Since I was thirteen or fourteen years old, alongside the high school I attended, even though I was studying French in high school, I started seriously learning French at a center in Tehran called the Iran and France Association, which was also close to our house on Hashemat-od-Dole Street. Because of this, I became acquainted with Victor Hugo very early on, and it is interesting that before I entered law school in 1958, I was influenced by Hugo's writings and became an opponent of the death penalty. By reading the novel '93', meaning 1793, during the establishment of the guillotine in Paris in this famous square called Concord, which at that time was named the Square of Revolution, and where Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette were also executed, and the atrocities of 1793 are described by Victor Hugo... In his other novel 'The Last Day of a Condemned Man', it is the same. I know Victor Hugo first as a novelist and then as a political and social figure. As I move forward, I reach the speech that Victor Hugo makes before the Assembly in 1848, after the fall of the empire and the second republic of France. In front of the Assembly, he says that you begin this constitution in the name of God, but why do you want to deprive the human of the right that God has given him? You have no right to do so because you did not give this right to humans. Therefore, he says that I ask you to include the abolition of the death penalty in the constitution. He speaks in the same way about women's rights. You see, in 1848, Victor Hugo talks about the abolition of the death penalty, and in this France, it is in 1981 that the death penalty is abolished. In 1848, he speaks about women's rights, and in this France, it is in 1945 that women gain the right to vote. Well, such a thinker, such a personality has entered my life and remains in my life. Since then, I have been against the death penalty and still am. Your fourth guest is Martin Luther King. Martin Luther King (1929 to 1968): Civil rights activist in America Fame: Leadership of the civil rights movement for African Americans Reason for invitation: During my student years, the civil rights movement in America was ongoing, and I was extremely attracted to this movement, especially to its symbol, Martin Luther King, who advocated peaceful struggle, meaning exactly the opposite of armed struggle. You see, we are in the 1940s and 50s, and at that time, I am a law student, and the world is a world where the Cuban Revolution has taken place, and the world is revolutionary. Che Guevara is the symbol of all the young people my age, but there is no picture of Che Guevara in my room. In my room, there is a picture of Mossadegh and a picture of Patrice Lumumba, and at the same time, the civil rights movement in America is ongoing... I, as a lawyer who is gradually coming out of law school, became extremely attracted to this movement, especially to its symbol, Martin Luther King, who said peaceful struggle, meaning exactly the opposite of armed struggle. I became so attracted and drawn to this that when Martin Luther King was killed in the spring of 1968 (1347), it was a huge blow to me. Well, since childhood, we have been anti-American because of the August 28 coup, and at that time, my anti-American sentiment was strengthened. Your fifth guest is Hannah Arendt; now tell us about her. Hannah Arendt (1906 to 1975): German philosopher and historian Works: The Human Condition, The Origins of Totalitarianism, Men in Dark Times, Revolution, Violence, and other works Reason for invitation: Between the ages of twenty and thirty-five, all my intellectual, moral, and political thoughts are truly indebted to Hannah Arendt. My intellectual/political maturity is greatly influenced by all of Hannah Arendt's books and thoughts. Between the ages of twenty and thirty, all my intellectual, moral, and political thoughts are truly indebted to Hannah Arendt. The books that Arendt writes about revolution, about the roots of totalitarianism, about violence, and her great book about Eichmann in Jerusalem that shakes the world. Someone who is a victim of the Nazi regime goes as a journalist to the Eichmann trial and starts protesting there. She says that Eichmann should be tried in an international court, not in an Israeli court. Because it was the Israelis who kidnapped him from Argentina and are now trying him. Then she raises a major ethical/philosophical issue that do not place all responsibilities on Eichmann. Do not demonize Eichmann. Do not portray Eichmann as the embodiment of the devil. The political thought system that gives rise to Eichmanns has a bad root in it.