Host: Farrokh Negahdar Guests: Bijan Jazani, Nouraldin Kianouri, Jimmy Carter, Marx, and Hafez. Music: "Iran, O Hopeful Abode" sung by Shahryar. Dinner Menu: Ghormeh Sabzi, Fesenjan, and Gheymé. Farrokh Negahdar is our host this week. He is recognized as one of the most prominent leftist activists in Iran. In his teenage years, he joined the Fedayeen Khalq group led by Bijan Jazani and spent some time in prison under the Shah's regime. After the 1979 Revolution, he became one of the most well-known leaders of the Fedayeen guerrilla organization, and after a split in the organization, he led the majority faction. Although Mr. Negahdar believed in peaceful political activity within the framework of the Islamic government, the regime eventually accused his organization of attempting to overthrow it, forcing him to leave Iran. Nevertheless, he still believes in reforms within the current Iranian government, which has led to criticism from some of his former comrades. Negahdar has been living in London for years, and I have come to his home today for a conversation with him.
Farrokh Negahdar: First of all, tell me who your dinner guests are?
Farrokh Negahdar: Bijan Jazani, Nouraldin Kianouri, Jimmy Carter, Marx, and Hafez.
Very well, you have invited a diverse group of guests, and I am sure your reasons for this are clear and precise, which I will ask you about later. For the dinner party, we want to play some music as well. What music would you like to be played?
I am Iranian, and two of our guests are not Iranian, and I want to draw their attention to Iran more. I chose "Iran, O Hopeful Abode" by Shahryar. This had a significant impact on my mind and created a period for me, reviving a hope that I still live with.
In the early days of the revolution, this music was played a lot on radio and television.
Yes, it was played a lot, but it will always have a deep presence in the historical memory of Iranians. However, I don’t know why there has been a growth in music playback devices in Iran, and this song is not being embraced much.
Farrokh Negahdar: The selected music: "Sepideh" (also known as "Iran, O Hopeful Abode") Album: Chavosh 6 Sung by: Mohammad-Reza Shajarian Composer and arranger: Mohammad-Reza Lotfi Lyricist: Hooshang Ebtehaj
Perhaps it is because of Shajarian's voice that there is not much interest in him these days.
Of course. But the interest in the hearts of Iranians will remain for centuries. His voice was a voice of hope, enthusiasm, and life during those revolutionary days, and it has influenced my mind as well.
Let’s return to the guests you chose. The first guest you mentioned was Bijan Jazani. What significance does Bijan Jazani have for you, and why do you want him to be at the dinner?
One is the profound impact that his life and personality, and his capabilities had on me. I always looked at him as a guide or role model. I first saw and recognized him when I was about twelve or thirteen years old, until the day he was executed in the heights of Evin.
Bijan Jazani (1937-1975): Leftist political activist Fame: Theorist and founding member of the Fedayeen Khalq organization Works: Vanguard of the Revolution and Leadership of the People, The Relationship of the Armed Revolutionary Movement with the People, Islamic Marxism or Marxist Islam, and other books Reason for invitation: His life, personality, and capabilities had a profound impact on me.
The day before he was taken away, I was in my cell, and the next day I learned that they had killed him. After Bijan's death, I felt a great void and the complexities that arose with the revolution always made me think every night and every day about what he would have done in the face of these complexities that arose during the revolution? I had lost something for myself and thought that there was no one else to fill that void. I had to pave my own way with comrades who might have been less experienced than me, and they were not as close to Bijan as I was.
The most important question for me was how he would have dealt with this revolution in which the majority of the Iranian people came out, but not with leftist ideas, and how he would have reacted to this wave. Everyone was confused. We were trapped on an island of confusion, and the wave was coming, and we didn’t know how to act. I believe he could have played the role of a captain in that storm; at least for the left spectrum. We were stuck in a bottleneck, perhaps a siege of the people. Now, how to deal with these people was the first question.
Nouraldin Kianouri (1915-1999): Leftist political activist Fame: First Secretary of the Tudeh Party of Iran from 1979 to 1982 Works: The Tudeh Party of Iran and the Issues of Our Revolutionary Homeland, Conversations with History, Memoirs Reason for invitation: After the establishment of the Islamic Republic, we were in daily contact with him. He sought reforms to make the revolution more popular. However, he had a contradiction that is the subject of my question.
Your second guest is Nouraldin Kianouri, the Secretary-General of the Tudeh Party of Iran, who Jazani probably had some issues with in his books.
Yes, it was related to the pre-revolutionary period. I cannot express any feelings about how Bijan Jazani would have acted regarding the Tudeh Party's behavior after the revolution based on what he said. If I were to express an opinion, I would have found my previous question about him.
But in any case, what significance did Kianouri have for you?
When the Islamic Republic of Iran was established, we established face-to-face and daily communications with Kianouri.
You, as one of the leaders of the majority of the Fedayeen?
Yes. At that time, I was already responsible for the organization of the majority of the Fedayeen Khalq Iran during the period when we started working with the Tudeh members and with Kianouri himself. The demeanor and behavior I observed from him was that he wanted to realize the flourishing of the Islamic Republic of Iran and propose reforms to make this revolution more popular and more independent, and to achieve this through peaceful methods with political participation with the Islamist forces based on the laws and positions set by the Islamic Republic of Iran.
But after the events that happened to the party, I realized that part of the party's activities, at least part of the party's activities that were used as a pretext for the repression of the Tudeh Party, did not align with the projects that Kianouri himself announced. This included the formation of a military organization and somewhat unclear connections with Soviet circles. In any case, this contradiction still exists in my mind. They say either do not befriend the elephant keepers or build a house in the elephant's mouth. This is a contradiction in your political behavior that has created many problems for both the party and the left in Iran.
That’s why you want to ask Kianouri about this contradiction at the dinner?
No. I want to know why this contradiction was created. I claim here that the correct political line is that you remain loyal to legal, public, and peaceful standards and do not step beyond this realm. My question is what answer he will give me, and who is responsible for such an event happening to the left in Iran.
Jimmy Carter (1924-Present): American politician from the Democratic Party Background: 39th President of the United States, Nobel Peace Prize winner in 2002 Works: A Call to Action, Palestine; Peace Not Apartheid, Negotiation; A Substitute for Violence, and other books Reason for invitation: I invite him to my dinner as a form of regret for the way we treated him.
Your third guest is a bit strange for me. Jimmy Carter, the former president of the United States, whom you once might have shouted against, calling for the death of American imperialism, etc. How did it come to be that you want to invite Jimmy Carter to your dinner?
He also said three corrupt individuals: Carter, Saddam, and Begin. And he placed them together. We repeated this slogan for a long time. Later, when the revolution passed and Carter remained in presidency for just over four years, he was one of the few presidents who only served four years. I think our behavior as Iranians in general and we, the majority of the Fedayeen Khalq Iran in particular, played a role in ensuring that he was defeated by Reagan.
When Reagan's policy and Carter's character are followed to this day, I am one of the supporters of the Carter Center. He is doing the right things. He is defending human rights and democracy in the world and has always been loyal to the ideals that I appreciate. Therefore, I invite him to my dinner to express a kind of regret for the way we treated him.
On my part, I say. I do not take responsibility for anyone in relation to Iran and the organization, etc. This is Farrokh Negahdar who wants to express regret and wish that if there had been an opportunity, we would have definitely had this understanding of you, and we would have treated you differently and stood up and said this behavior towards Mr. Carter is not the right behavior we should have.
Karl Marx (1818-1883): German thinker, philosopher, and sociologist Fame: Founder of Communism Important Work: The Communist Manifesto, Capital Reason for invitation: Marx's ideas were always on the dinner table, and I grew up with them. I have always regarded him as a very powerful prophet and theorist who is responsive and comprehensive.
Let’s move to your fourth guest, Karl Marx.
Karl Marx. I was born and raised in a leftist environment. I am leftist, and Marx's ideas have always been on the dinner table, and I grew up with them. I have always regarded him as a prophet and a very powerful theorist who is responsive and comprehensive. However, the course of life has raised questions for me about the theories he proposed.
One of the questions is that I believe Marx's followers, due to the points or knots in Marx's theory, have generally produced more division and split the world into two camps of good and evil, and have absolutized this good and evil. The revolutionary front and the counter-revolutionary front are all black and all white. When we went to the Soviet Union and when we went to the United States, we saw that these are two types of systems that are different from each other. Certainly, if someone wants to choose, there are good things in both, and it is not the case that one must be destroyed for the other to flourish.
Do you think Marx's followers misunderstood him?
I think revolutionary Marxist political parties understood one aspect of Marx's theories that emphasized conflict and struggle against the opponent.
What is important to you that they have not seen?
They did not see that Marx is saying... I mean, the understanding that Marx has of the essence and identity of man is a much more beautiful understanding of existence. It is an ideal for us. It is a guiding light for us that a human should have such characteristics. As a wish, I accept and enjoy when I see Marx's theories and the belief he has in humanity, I remember a poem by Shamloo that says we respected humanity. That is, we saw it, recognized it, and understood it.
In my opinion, this understanding that Marx has transferred to our minds is that the essence of man can be so noble and pure that he does not seek power, oppression, or deception if the class issue is resolved. I have a word on this "if". If the class issue is resolved, this essence of man does not change, but that guiding light and that lighthouse that we envision from the essence of man should always be above us. That is why I want him to come to the dinner table...
Hafez (727-792 AH): Renowned Iranian poet Important Work: Divan-e Ghazaliyat Reason for invitation: In the tumultuous struggles of life, I reached an understanding of Hafez that none of my other guests had the capacity to understand humanity and that type of approach to humanity except for Hafez.
Welcome! And your fifth guest is Hafez. I think he cared a lot about humanity. Why is Hafez coming to your dinner?
Because in this tumultuous struggle that I had in my life, I reached an understanding of Hafez that none of my other guests had the capacity for understanding humanity and that type of approach to humanity except for Hafez. I want Hafez to come and recite a few poems for the other guests and make them contemplate that you can engage with your ideas that transcend eras, times, social classes, and religions and have better understanding with each other.
The result of my life may be that I spent half of my life in increasing the divides and confrontations, and then I realized that this increase in confrontations could produce war and slaughter, and it does. And the distrust towards the other, and in the second half, I concluded that we must promote dialogue between civilizations, parties, religions, cultures, and humans, and Hafez is a good means to promote this dialogue and better understanding.
For your diverse guests from Karl Marx to Hafez and Kianouri, what food do you want to serve them?
I would like my guests, especially my foreign guests, to become familiar with Iranian dishes. Well, I prefer Iranian stews much more than rice.