Host: Mohammad Reza Nikfar Guests: Karl Marx, Alireza Mohammadi, Ibn Khaldun, Saadi, and Martin Heidegger Music: Hoshm Baber sung by Mohsen Namjoo Dinner Menu: Bread, cheese, herbs, and wine This week's host is Mohammad Reza Nikfar, a political philosophy researcher who has published several books and numerous articles, primarily critiquing religious violence or, as he puts it, the theology of torture and the political role of religion. He is also a critic of the so-called religious intellectual movement in Iran. Nikfar studied chemical engineering in Tehran but turned to philosophy in Germany, earning a doctorate from the University of Cologne with a thesis on the thoughts of German philosopher Martin Heidegger. He is also a media figure and the editor of Zamaneh, based in Amsterdam. Nikfar states that he has been politically active and socially conscious since his adolescence, with a strong emphasis on secularism and the separation of religion from state affairs. Nikfar resides in Cologne, and I spoke with him over the phone.
Mr. Nikfar, welcome to the program. Please tell me which five people you would like to invite to your dinner party?
I actually want to invite six people with your permission, but one of them is absent. However, since he is always present in spirit, I cannot forget him. The five who are present are Karl Marx, Alireza Mohammadi, Ibn Khaldun, Saadi, and Martin Heidegger.
You mentioned you have six guests; what is the story of the absent sixth guest?
It’s a private matter...
So you won’t provide any explanation about him?
I will not.
Very well. I will later ask you to explain about the five guests you invited. One person is absent and in the shadows. But now I wanted to know what music you would like to play for your guests?
Mohammad Reza Nikfar / Hoshm Baber
Selected Music: Hoshm Baber Album: Alki Performed by: Mohsen Namjoo Poem by: Saadi
I chose music from my dear friend Mohsen Namjoo. He has a very beautiful piece called 'Hoshm Baber,' which features a poem by Saadi: 'The candle of the sky is lit from the east, O cupbearer, pour the wine of pain at night.'
Do you like Mohsen Namjoo as a singer in general, or do you particularly like this song where he sings a poem by Saadi?
Mohsen Namjoo is both my friend and I like his work, I appreciate his style and his breaking of traditions, and he is a very cultured person.
Mr. Nikfar, now let’s return to your guests; you first mentioned Karl Marx.
Guests of Mohammad Reza Nikfar / Karl Marx
Karl Marx (1818 to 1883): German thinker, philosopher, and sociologist Fame: Founder of communism Important work: The Communist Manifesto Reason for invitation: Marx is a comprehensive figure. His thoughts, moral approach, pursuit of justice, and critical perspective on issues have always been a constant source of inspiration for me since I became acquainted with this great man.
I wanted to say that I know many good people. I wish I could invite them all to a large hall: my fellow countrymen, the hardworking villagers I knew, the workers I connected with in Tehran during my underground activities, my high school classmates, my polytechnic classmates, political comrades, lost friends, and a world of philosophers, artists, and writers. I wish they could all be there with their children, making noise and playing. But since we cannot, and we have to limit the guests, I said I want to invite six people, one of whom is absent, but among the other five, Karl Marx is the first.
Marx is a comprehensive figure. His thoughts, moral approach, pursuit of justice, and critical perspective on issues have always been a constant source of inspiration for me since I became acquainted with this great man. Karl Marx wrote his theories about economics, politics, and philosophy in the 19th century, and his book 'The Communist Manifesto' was published in 1848, which is almost one hundred and seventy years ago. How is it that Marx's ideas continue to inspire you given the transformations that have occurred in the world over the past two centuries?
Yes, but the most important point is that this will not remain the case. This is the message I receive from Karl Marx. Karl Marx is someone who continued the ideas of the modern era, that is, what was articulated in the French Revolution, namely the ideas of freedom, equality, and solidarity. He questioned what the conditions for the realization of these ideals are, and in this regard, his mind turned to the issue of ownership and raised questions that still concern us today, such as the issue of exploitation, the issue of humans becoming commodities, the issue of reification, and alienation. All these issues still exist, and as long as these issues are present, we must refer to Karl Marx; there is nothing to be done, and this friend will always be with us.
Mr. Nikfar, some say that the result of Marx's thoughts is Stalinism, meaning what happened in Russia. What is your response to these critics?
Well, this is a very detailed discussion. I have really grappled with whether this is the case. If we take the foundation of Marx as the book 'Capital,' we see that his work is a critique of political economy. Marx is not a system builder, and therefore we cannot connect systems to him. His main idea is expressed in the critique of political economy. This idea should have been accompanied by a critique of systems and a critique of power. We can say that I wish he had worked more on this and written more, but you cannot blame someone for not writing enough on this matter. He had a project for a lifetime, and that was the critique of political economy, which he was able to partially accomplish. The rest of the shortcomings were others' in continuing this flow, as to why the critique of political economy was not sufficiently accompanied by elements of other critiques.
Another common criticism of Marxism and Marx is that attention to freedom has diminished in it, with more emphasis placed on justice and related issues rather than on freedom. Do you think that Marxism or Marx's thoughts are compatible with the concept of freedom?
In the 20th century, this was much debated, and some tried to show this compatibility. There is a thesis that if we delve into the depth of what is said in the liberal thought in the political sense, that is, what was present in the French Revolution, Marx also has the same foundations, but Marx questions the conditions for the realization of these. However, Marxists should have paid more attention to the critique of systems and the critique of power. In this regard, I wrote a detailed article last year on how to summarize these experiences and strengthen the element of freedom.
But you generally believe that as long as the capitalist system exists with exploitation and alienation, etc., Marx's thoughts will remain alive because they are the most important critique of this system.
You expressed it very correctly. Now let’s talk about your second guest, whom I think you should provide more details about, Alireza Mohammadi.
Guests of Mohammad Reza Nikfar / Alireza Mohammadi
Alireza Mohammadi: Childhood friend and one of the executed in the summer of '67 Reason for invitation: Alireza Mohammadi was a local boy and my friend in Arak. Alireza Mohammadi was killed in the summer of '67. He symbolizes the lost friends for me, especially as a symbol of the friends of my youth in Arak.
Alireza Mohammadi was a local boy and my friend in Arak. He was killed in the summer of '67. He symbolizes the lost friends for me, especially as a symbol of the friends of my youth in Arak. These friends were all outstanding in character and humanity and sometimes in education and knowledge in that city, and later they were either executed or became displaced. He represents a generation and a very large group of friends who suffered such a fate.
You mentioned that Alireza Mohammadi was executed in '67, which is the same time as the famous massacre of that summer?
Exactly.
From which political group was he, if you want to say?
He was from the leftist groups, but I do not know exactly because I had just come abroad at that time. I only know that he was arrested and then executed.
Now let’s move on to your third guest, Ibn Khaldun, who is one of the great historians of the Islamic era.
Guests of Mohammad Reza Nikfar / Ibn Khaldun
Ibn Khaldun (732 to 808 AH): Arab Muslim historian and sociologist Fame: Pioneer of scientific historiography and sociology Important work: The Muqaddimah Reason for invitation: Ibn Khaldun is a progressive thinker in the field of sociology and political sociology with strong elements of anthropology. Studying Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah allows one to pay attention to the characteristics of the East, and in this regard, he has always been a reference for me.
Ibn Khaldun was a great historian of the 14th century, from the Maghreb, that is, North Africa. He is the author of a very important book in history called 'Kitab al-Ibar.' This book has a famous introduction known as 'The Muqaddimah,' which is one of the most readable books for understanding the history of the East, including the history of Iran. Ibn Khaldun is a progressive thinker in sociology and political sociology with strong elements of anthropology. Studying Ibn Khaldun's work allows one to pay attention to the characteristics of the East, and in this regard, he has always been a reference for me.
When I read the works of others like Karl Marx, Max Weber, and others, I also include Ibn Khaldun in this intellectual dialogue because he can raise very interesting points and say, 'No, it wasn’t like that, and this factor also exists, and we have had these issues in these regions.'
Do you think Ibn Khaldun's historiography also created a transformation, meaning he wrote analytical history and not what is called calendar history that merely mentions events, meaning he went after the roots, causes, and effects?
Yes, but unfortunately, he is one of those stars that exist in the intellectual sky of our region, but that thought did not continue. However, Ibn Khaldun was rediscovered from the 19th century, and it is necessary that reading his attractive and thoughtful work be included in the textbooks of all social and historical sciences faculties.
One of the other well-known books in ancient Iranian historiography is 'Tarikh Bayhaqi.' Do you think any comparison can be made between Ibn Khaldun and Bayhaqi?
Bayhaqi's perspective does not have the sociological depth of Ibn Khaldun. In his work, people and social relations are somewhat overshadowed. Of course, he has a brilliant prose style and an ethical and empathetic perspective that makes him attractive. However, analytically, it cannot be compared with the profound work known as 'The Muqaddimah.'
Your fourth guest is one of the peaks of Persian poetry, Saadi. Why do you like Saadi, and why did you choose him among other famous poets?
Guests of Mohammad Reza Nikfar / Saadi
Sheikh Muslih al-Din Saadi (589-670 AH): Iranian poet Famous works: Gulistan, Bustan, Ghazals Reason for invitation: Saadi is the wise sweet-speaking sage. I learned to read and write before I went to school with 'Gulistan.' I am somewhat indebted to him. Saadi has a tolerance and a humorous perspective on issues, and the element of playfulness that exists in Saadi makes him attractive.
Saadi is the wise sweet-speaking sage. I learned to read and write before I went to school with 'Gulistan.' I am somewhat indebted to him. It is impossible that when I am writing something, a phrase from Saadi does not suddenly come out from the corner of my mind. On the other hand, Saadi teaches a person to pay attention to the subtleties of human relationships, and this point that the human world is established in a so-called dialogical manner. This element of dialogue, interaction, coexistence, and tolerance is very strong in his thought.
Saadi has a tolerance and a humorous perspective on issues, or as my dear friend Dariush Ashouri says, this element of playfulness that exists in Saadi makes him attractive. Especially, there is an anti-dogmatic, anti-fundamentalist aspect in him that places humanity and coexistence at the center of issues. As a result, this great man is very appealing to me.
You mentioned Saadi's wisdom; do you have any problems with his wisdom, for example, the advice he gives to kings on how to stay in power?
After all, Saadi is a child of his time. We accept this. When I praise Saadi, I am not endorsing his actions. But if Saadi were to travel through time from his era to ours, we would recognize him as a peace-loving and humanitarian figure who invited everyone to dialogue and one of the symbols of tolerance and peace.
This aspect of his wisdom is important, otherwise, there are some intellectual limitations in him that are the limitations of his time, such as his views on women and his views on education, or sometimes he sides with the powerful. But one thing is certain: Saadi is never an admirer of the sword and war and oppression; he always advises from an independent position and does so very courageously, and in fact, he does not have the demeanor of someone who bows down. He speaks with pride and even dignity to kings, and we can see that he has a proud neck.
Now we come to your last guest, Martin Heidegger, the German philosopher, whose thought...