Encounter of a 'Martyr's Mother' with the Mother of Beheshti at Raha Bahraini's Dinner Party

Host: Raha Bahraini Guests: Nira Jalali, a martyr's mother, Judith Butler, a mother seeking retribution, and Shokufe Sakhi Music: They Only Dance Dinner Menu: Shrimp Pilaf The host of this program is Raha Bahraini, a researcher at Amnesty International and an expert on Iranian affairs within this human rights organization. She graduated in Women's and Gender Studies from the University of Toronto and also studied law at York University in Toronto, later continuing her education at the University of Essex in the UK, where she earned her master's degree in international human rights law. Bahraini is very active in condemning human rights violations in Iran and often interviews with Persian-language media abroad. I have spoken with her at the Amnesty International headquarters in London. Raha Bahraini: Welcome to the program, host. Please tell me who you want to invite to the dinner party? I want to invite the mother of Beheshti, the mothers of Khavaran, and a woman whose five children were killed in the mass executions of the 1980s. I want to invite an abstract guest whose name I do not know, and she is the mother of a martyr from the Iran-Iraq war. The third guest is Judith Butler, a contemporary thinker and feminist philosopher. The fourth is a mother seeking retribution, and the last guest is one of my very dear friends, Dr. Shokufe Sakhi. Very well, Ms. Bahraini. You will definitely explain to our audience later why you invited these individuals. But now tell me what music you want to play for them? I would like to definitely watch a clip together at the party, and that clip is the protest song 'They Only Dance,' performed by the Police with Sting's voice. This protest song was written for women whose loved ones disappeared and were executed during the dictatorship in Chile and Argentina. Raha Bahraini: They Only Dance Selected Music: They Only Dance Performed by: Sting Sting performed this song in 1990 after the collapse of dictatorship at a very memorable concert with the support of Amnesty International. In the video clip I want to watch with my guests, there is a shocking scene where, amidst the applause of the audience, some of these mothers whose loved ones disappeared come on stage holding their photos and dance. Now let's return to your guests. You mentioned the mother of Beheshti. The mother of Beheshti, as I said, lost five of her children in the widespread executions of the 1980s. Her first child, a son, was shot and killed in the street in 1980. One of her daughters was killed under torture in detention. Another son was executed in 1984, and two other sons were executed in the summer massacre of 1988. Raha Bahraini's Guests: Nira Jalali Nira Jalali (deceased in 2015): Mother of five victims of the 1980s executions, known as the Mother of Beheshti Reason for Invitation: For me, the mother of Beheshti is a symbol of all women who strive for the truth and justice and do not allow the crime to be forgotten. According to her, none of her loved ones' bodies were returned to her by the authorities. She spent years living between prison and cemetery. After her sons were executed in the 1988 massacre, she searched so much for their bodies that a cemetery officer took pity on her and gave her the address of Khavaran. As you may know, Khavaran is a desolate desert that is the burial site of some of the executed prisoners. Since 1988, the authorities have not allowed families to even plant flowers or plants in this place and have subjected families to various forms of harassment. Nevertheless, the mother of Beheshti, along with other mothers whose loved ones were executed, formed the group of Khavaran mothers and families and, since 1988, they go to Khavaran on the last Friday of every month and on occasions like Eid to keep the memory of their loved ones alive. For me, the mother of Beheshti is a symbol of all women who strive for the truth and justice and do not allow the crime to be forgotten. What do these Khavaran mothers specifically want from the government? First of all, they want to know why their loved ones were executed, through what process, and on what charges. Because many of the executed were serving their prison sentences. These mothers also want to know where their loved ones are buried and why the perpetrators and instigators of these executions have never been identified. They also want the right to mourn. Your second guest, you said, is the mother of a martyr. Whose martyr's mother? Raha Bahraini's Guests: A Martyr's Mother Second Guest: One of the mothers of the casualties of the eight-year war Reason for Invitation: The idea of confronting the mothers of martyrs of the Iran-Iraq war and the mothers of the executed in the 1980s has always occupied my mind. I want to know how this martyr's mother feels when she sees the mother of Beheshti and the mothers of Beheshti's who do not have the right to mourn. She is the mother of a man who went to the front during the Iran-Iraq war when the war no longer had a defensive nature and was killed. I invited this martyr's mother because the idea of confronting the mothers of martyrs of the Iran-Iraq war and the mothers of the executed in the 1980s has always occupied my mind. Recently, when I was researching the destruction of mass graves related to the 1988 massacre, this idea became more prominent in my mind. While researching, I came across many news reports that in the Behesht-e-Reza cemetery in Mashhad, just a short distance from the mass grave of the executed victims of the 1988 massacre, which is a desolate desert where families were not allowed to plant a flower, the cemetery officials planted five thousand tulips for the martyrs of the Iran-Iraq war and also built a very equipped cultural monument for holding memorial ceremonies for the martyrs of the Iran-Iraq war. This blatant discrimination in the treatment of the dead has always been shocking to me and somehow vividly depicts the discriminatory system governing the living in our society. I want to know how this martyr's mother feels when she sees the mothers of Beheshti and the mothers of Beheshti's who do not have the right to mourn, meaning how she justifies that a group of people, like her own child, are placed in this exalted position and their mourning ceremonies are governmental and public, while the mothers of Beheshti's have no right to mourn at all. Perhaps at the party, some empathy from this martyr's mother will be shown to the mother of Beheshti. Have you ever encountered in your work that these mothers of martyrs of the Iran-Iraq war want to show any empathy towards the mothers who lost their children in the 1988 massacre? I have never had the opportunity to talk to the mothers of martyrs of the war, and that is why I am very happy that this mother has accepted my invitation and will come to my party. Your third guest is Judith Butler. Please explain who she is because some of our audience may not know her. Raha Bahraini's Guests: Judith Butler Judith Butler (born 1956): American philosopher and feminist Works: Gender Trouble, The Sexual Politics, Precarious Life, The Power of Mourning and Violence, and other works Reason for Invitation: Her invitation to the party is based on the theories she presents in a book titled 'Precarious Life, The Power of Mourning and Violence.' Judith Butler is a contemporary American philosopher who has significant works in the fields of feminism, gender, political philosophy, and ethics. I know her from my undergraduate studies when I was studying Women's and Gender Studies. But the reason for inviting her to the party is based on the theories she presents in a book titled 'Precarious Life, The Power of Mourning and Violence.' A fundamental question Butler raises in this book is how, in violent regimes, some people become devoid of human status and their lives are not considered lives at all. Butler considers the topic of mourning and mournability very important in examining this question. This means that she says there is a direct relationship between the violence that governments perpetrate and take lives and the subsequent prohibitions they impose to prevent mourning for these lost lives. Butler argues that by this type of prohibition of mourning, the force of violence eliminates the ground for empathy and understanding of human commonalities, creating a space where the process of dehumanization and violence against humans continues. In other words, according to Butler, when a life is presented and declared as un-mournable, it means that life was not truly a life, and its loss does not have the value of crying, memorializing, and mourning. I think Butler's discussion can be very relevant in the confrontation between the mother of Beheshti and the martyr's mother and can lead to interesting thoughts and discussions. Are you aware if any of Butler's writings have been translated into Persian? Yes, her writings, especially in the field of gender, such as 'Gender Trouble,' have been translated into Persian, and unfortunately, I have not seen any of her books translated, but I have seen some scattered articles online that discuss mourning. But I hope her works will be fully translated. You mentioned that you want to invite a mother who is seeking retribution. Raha Bahraini's Guests: A Mother Seeking Retribution Fourth Guest: A mother seeking retribution Reason for Invitation: I want to take this opportunity at the party to tell this mother, who is a symbol of all mothers in Iran seeking retribution, that our efforts to abolish the death penalty and save the lives of death row inmates do not mean ignoring their pain and suffering. Due to the nature of my work at Amnesty International, I know many mothers whose children have been killed in a dispute and are seeking retribution. In our work, the audience is generally the judicial authorities of countries, and we do not have the opportunity to talk to the families of the victims. I want to use this opportunity at the party to tell this mother, who is a symbol of all mothers in Iran seeking retribution, that our efforts to abolish the death penalty and save the lives of death row inmates do not mean ignoring their pain and suffering, and we empathize with their grief and suffering and support their request for justice for bereaved families. However, we do not see justice in execution. I think that with the presence of this mother at the party, an important discussion will also take place about the boundary between revenge and justice. Now let's move on to your fifth guest, Ms. Shokufe Sakhi. Why do you want to invite her? Raha Bahraini's Guests: Shokufe Sakhi Shokufe Sakhi (born 1964): Human rights activist and political prisoner of the 1980s Reason for Invitation: I invite Shokufe for her inspiring life story and the deep perspective she has on many of the issues that will likely be raised at the party tonight. Shokufe spent nearly a decade of her life in the 1980s as a political prisoner in Evin Prison. After being released from prison, she sought asylum in Canada, where she studied and now holds a PhD in political philosophy. I invite Shokufe for her inspiring life story and the deep perspective she has on many of the issues that will likely be raised at the party tonight. In the way that Shokufe analyzes her experience of imprisonment and the tortures and violence she endured, there is a special humanity that I think can lead to reflection and thought among all the guests. She always emphasizes that we must recognize the suffering and pain of others and not remain within the circle of our personal suffering. We should collectivize our personal suffering and reach empathy with others through this. She also emphasizes that, firstly, we are responsible for not causing the suffering of others, and secondly, we should strive to create a space for those who have caused suffering and torment to others to reach a point where they pause regarding their actions and show responsibility and accountability. Very well. Now, Ms. Bahraini, for your friend and Ms. Butler and the mothers you invited to the party, you will play the music 'They Only Dance' with Sting's voice. It is true that they are all grieving mothers, but they want a meal. What do you want to serve? I want to make southern shrimp pilaf for them. My maternal family is from the south, and I learned how to prepare this dish from my mother, who, with her creative and innovative spirit, made many changes to the recipe. In the classic recipe, it only includes shrimp, raisins, and rice, but my mother adds eggplant, pistachios, walnuts, and plenty of saffron and barberries to the pilaf, and it is usually well-received by every guest who comes to our house because it is a very special dish. By cooking this pilaf, which I usually make at parties, I want to fill the place of my mother at this party because she has played an important role in shaping my thoughts and personality and we have always had a very good intellectual interaction. I am sure your mother will be very happy that her daughter is both successful in human rights work and can cook a very good meal for guests who are victims of human rights violations. Not as good as her cooking. Now, what will happen at your dinner table among your guests? First of all, I hope that the atmosphere of mourning does not dominate my party despite the pain and suffering that each guest brings with them. Just as I do not want the atmosphere of mourning to dominate Iranian society.