Homayoun Katouzian and 'Satire and Irony in the Works of Sadegh Hedayat'

The book 'Satire and Irony in the Works of Sadegh Hedayat' by Homayoun Katouzian, a professor of literature and history at Oxford University, has recently been published for the first time in Iran after more than two decades and has now reached its second edition. In addition to several articles in English and Persian, Katouzian has previously published books about Sadegh Hedayat. I had a conversation with him regarding the publication of 'Satire and Irony in the Works of Sadegh Hedayat'. Mr. Katouzian, in your book, you equated satire with 'Satire' and irony with 'Irony'. Iranians are familiar with the word satire, but the term irony is your invention. Before discussing Hedayat's works and this book, could you provide an example from Iranian literary writings that illustrates the distinction between satire and irony? Homayoun Katouzian: Satire is a piece of writing or work that contains a point expressed with subtlety and some degree of ambiguity. It usually has a joyful impact without necessarily being funny, meaning it can be comic. Satire can be tragic and has a special effect that distinguishes it from other forms of expression. When I wanted to write this book, I encountered the issue that in Iran, they referred to irony as satire, with the most obvious and famous example being the phrase 'the satire of history', which translates 'Irony of History'. At that time, the term irony was not present in Iran. Later, I heard that a book from English under the title of Irony was translated into Persian, but I still do not know how familiar people are with that term and that book. In any case, when I attempted to create the term irony about twenty-five or six years ago, there was no word for it in Persian, and the use of the word satire instead of irony and irony was incorrect. I coined the term irony, which was not arbitrary or self-serving. In Persian, when we add 'in' to some nouns, they become adjectives. For example, 'darin' becomes 'dar'. When we add 'h' to an adjective like 'darin', it turns back into a noun. 'Dar' and 'darin' and 'darin' are examples. There are many other examples. Based on this grammatical precedent, I created this word. Many works of some famous poets are satirical or sharply satirical. For instance, in the story of Rostam and Sohrab, the events are determined in a completely unpredictable manner, so that Sohrab, who came to see and recognize his father, is killed by Rostam. This is irony. It is irony of destiny; 'Irony of Destiny'; 'Irony of Faith'. You also provided an example in the book. The famous poem that says to the camel that it is evident from your knee. This is also a type of irony. Yes, it is a kind of satire that requires contemplation to understand. Rumi says: One asked the camel, where do you come from, O fortunate one? He replied, 'From the warm bath of your street.' He said, 'It is evident from your knee.' The camel's knee, which always appears dirty and unclean, ironically says that it is evident from your knee that you were in a bath. As I said, it requires contemplation and knowledge for one to understand the matter. You divided Hedayat's works into four groups: nationalistic romantic like 'Parvin, Daughter of Sasan', critical realism like 'Haji Agha', psychological stories like 'The Blind Owl', and satires and satirical writings like 'The Marble Ball' and 'Aliyeh Khanom' and also 'Vagh Vagh Sahib' in collaboration with Masoud Farzad. The book 'Satire and Irony in the Works of Sadegh Hedayat' is full of examples of satire and irony. What is the function of satire in Hedayat's works? Is it a confrontation with the government? With the opposition? The ruling body? Political, literary, religious, superstitious beliefs of the masses? Did he leave anyone unscathed? No. He left very few people unscathed. All the cases he had severe criticism of regarding the views and behaviors or anything else from the government to ordinary people and literary figures, he employed satire. Also, other issues. For example, consider the case of Freudianism in 'Vagh Vagh Sahib', which is not about Iran. He humorously created a piece that summarizes and humorously explains Freud's theories and then says that yes, a man and a woman got married, and for Freudian reasons, after they became cold towards each other, they realized they did not like each other much. One said he would go in search of true love, and the other said he would go in search of true love. But they did not find true love and only tore their shoes. This, as I mentioned, has no relation to Iran and Iranian society and the greats of literature and politics. Therefore, Hedayat was fundamentally a satirical person, and one of the aspects of his character, while also being literary, was satire and writing satire. As it is known, he was very humorous and witty with his close friends. However, in formal gatherings, as I have heard, he was silent and did not speak at all. Is there a difference between satire, mockery, and ridicule in Hedayat's works, or does he use them all to a similar extent? There is a difference. Hedayat has less mockery and ridicule. Sometimes we encounter it. For example, there are a few examples in 'Haji Agha'. In 'The Marble Ball', it is relatively abundant. In 'Vagh Vagh Sahib', there is none. In 'Aliyeh Khanom', rude words are used because of the metaphors and colloquial expressions that he did not create and brought and used, and for this reason, these rude words exist. But overall, Hedayat was not one for cursing and slandering. His satire is more subtle than that, even if it is sharp. Sometimes his satire is sharp, but it is different from cursing. Satire and irony are seen in satires and satirical writings and critical realism and letters of Sadegh Hedayat, or are traces of it also seen in two types of his writings, namely in his historical novel and psychological stories according to your classification? Much less. The nationalistic romantic and psychological stories do not generally provide a medium for satire. Although the ironic effect is seen on them. For example, in one of Hedayat's nationalistic romantic stories, we see such a work. But in any case, these two categories of works are not works that are characterized by much satire and irony. You mentioned that aside from a few friends, acquaintances, and close associates, the name of Sadegh Hedayat is more associated with bitterness, loneliness, depression, death, and suicide than with smiles, laughter, joy, liveliness, and life. How can this aspect of satire and irony in Sadegh Hedayat be explained? The impact you mentioned that Hedayat's readers and audiences have is due to his psychological stories, especially 'The Blind Owl'. Most people who have heard of Hedayat and are familiar with him know little beyond 'The Blind Owl', and they may not have even read it. But the rumors surrounding 'The Blind Owl' and the rumors related to the psychological stories have created such an image of Hedayat among the public. However, the reality is that this is one aspect of Hedayat's works, and as we said, he has other works that do not have such an impact. According to the term you invented, does this not indicate the psychological irony of Hedayat's life? It could be expressed that way. But in any case, the reality is that Hedayat is not usually fully recognized. Even in Western countries, although some of his other stories have been translated, it is unclear how many people have read them. But 'The Blind Owl' is what has fame, and Hedayat is recognized by 'The Blind Owl'. The criticisms written about him are that Hedayat is difficult, all related to that. I often see people writing critiques of Hedayat or 'The Blind Owl' who clearly have not read a word of Hedayat. Let's return to the book 'Satire and Irony'. This book was not published in Iran over twenty years ago. Why was it not published in Iran at that time? I completed this book in Iran 26 years ago. At that time, there were no facilities for printing in Iran. In 2003, an Iranian publisher in Sweden, who had heard that such a thing existed, and 2003 was also the hundredth anniversary of Hedayat's birth. I myself organized an international conference about Hedayat and his works at Oxford University that year. That year, the Swedish publisher approached me and said he wanted to publish this book. I agreed, and the book was published, but it was not widely distributed. Except for about fifty or sixty copies seen here and there on bookstands in Iranian circles, it did not have a wide sale. Until last year, the Iran Nameh in Toronto decided to reprint it, meaning it would be re-typeset and published again. The Iran Nameh in Toronto had a contract with the Iranian publisher, Pardis Danesh, and published it in Iran about three months ago. Has it reached the second edition? Yes. As the publisher told me over the phone, they printed 1100 copies, which sold out in the first ten days, and they printed another 500 copies and are now waiting to see how the market situation is. Is there a difference between the version recently published in Iran and the version published abroad? No. Except for some rude words that belong to others, not to Hedayat or me... For example, I mentioned that in the classic satires, rude words have been removed and replaced with dots. There is no fundamental difference between the two prints. More than twenty years ago, as you mentioned, the conditions for printing in Iran were not provided. Was it because the red lines were so many that it was not worth publishing in that form in Iran, or were there other reasons? It was due to the red lines, and as a result, it was not published in Iran at that time. Has censorship and restrictions in printing in Iran been announced? Were all specific words of Sadegh Hedayat removed? No. The publisher of the version that came out in Tehran three months ago sent it to me. There were eighteen instances of the things I mentioned that they said needed to be removed, and I agreed. It did not hurt the book and did not diminish its importance at all. The term 'irony', which you used in the title of this book and in your other writings like 'Saadi, Poet of Love and Life', has not yet become widespread. Do you think with the publication of the book that has 'irony' in its title, namely this book 'Satire and Irony in the Works of Sadegh Hedayat', the situation will change in Iran? It may. But keep in mind that there was no correct awareness of the essence of irony; otherwise, they would not have referred to irony as the satire of history. But now that these things have been raised, and I mentioned that a booklet has also been translated into Persian under the title of irony, it may attract the attention of critics and authors more to the concept of irony, and if they wish, they can use the term irony. In any case, the term irony at least makes the work of the Academy easier. Six of your books have been published in Persian and English regarding Sadegh Hedayat. The number of your works on Hedayat and various articles is extensive. Do you think you will close the file on Sadegh Hedayat with this book, or are there still points that may reflect in your future works about Sadegh Hedayat? No. I think I have done all the work I needed to do in the field of Hedayat. As you said, two books have been published in English, one of which has been translated into Persian, and three books have also been directly in Persian, which is the last of them. I have also written numerous articles in Persian and English about Hedayat. But I do not think there will be a medium for me to write something new about Hedayat.