Nudity as Protest; Yes or No?

Many individuals and groups have used nudity as a method of protest against the oppression of women's bodies or feminine bodies. This controversial movement, which primarily started in European countries and communities like Ukraine, continued during the Arab Spring revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia, provoking numerous positive and negative reactions. Supporters of nudity argue that this action breaks and discredits the taboo surrounding the body, particularly the female body, while opponents describe these protest methods as superficial and ineffective, sometimes even labeling them as immoral. This week, Zeynab Paygamberzadeh, a graduate of Gender Studies from Sweden, and Mahbubeh Abbasgholizadeh, a women's rights activist, discuss this topic. Ms. Abbasgholizadeh, to what extent do you think this method is appropriate for protesting against the compulsory hijab and the erasure of the female body in Iranian society? Mahbubeh Abbasgholizadeh: Considering nudity as a performance or tactic for civil struggles and expressing dissatisfaction largely depends on the political and social conditions we live in. For instance, the experiences of 'Femen' in Ukraine or the experiences of young women in the U.S. protesting why men's torsos can be exposed while women face fines for exposing their breasts, or in European countries where, to attract attention, a few naked and painted individuals often lead demonstrations even for issues related to migrants and women... These examples relate significantly to the framework in which they are designed. However, the most important message these images create is to shock the viewer. In Iran, this method does not work. Not only does it not work, but it also sends a counter-message. The reason is clear. When you want to shock society, you do not want to poison it. You want to provide something that makes society think. In my opinion, this action is not only not positive but also generates a lot of negative reactions in society and will not have any social support for that person. Ms. Paygamberzadeh, we see that Ms. Abbasgholizadeh used the phrase 'poisoning society' to describe this protest method, and naturally, the issue of social shame arises, which she says causes nudity as a form of protest to be not only ineffective but also rejected. You are participating in this program as a supporter of nudity as a protest. What is your response to these points, and where does your argument in defense of nudity begin? Zeynab Paygamberzadeh: The right to nudity in a society like the U.S. or Sweden may mean women saying they want to be able to expose their torsos like men do; in another society, it may mean a woman wanting to swim in the sea or expose another part of her body that is considered taboo in that society without having to censor her body. However, generally, nudity is taboo in all societies, especially the nudity of sexual organs, and the fact that nudity is still used as a method of protest in Western countries, as Mahbubeh mentioned, and that it shocks society indicates that this taboo has not disappeared anywhere in the world and is constantly produced and reproduced by mainstream media. There is a specific definition of the female body; a body that is a commodity that must be worked on to be displayed, and that image in Iranian society and among the Iranian middle class, especially in virtual spaces; for example, Instagram is very strong, and I believe this is one of the reasons why there needs to be a protest against this type of display of the female body, and the body of a woman who does not fit these patterns should also be shown by activists. I think it is very important that as much as society is constantly confronted with these patterns that the body must be censored due to moral and Islamic values or that the body must become a tool for displaying social and economic class; society should also be educated that the body is none of these things and that we should be comfortable in our bodies and accept our bodies as they are, meaning the body of a woman who has hair, the body of a woman who is wrinkled, the body of a human who is disabled, the body of a human who does not fit beauty standards; for example, is considered very fat or too thin... These bodies should also be seen. For instance, women's armpit hair is taboo everywhere in the world, and this type of display of nudity can provoke thought in society and lead individuals to have a different understanding of the body. Well, Ms. Abbasgholizadeh, a listener of our program might now ask whether this method is the only or best method for protesting against the commodification of the body or the oppression of the body? Can nudifying the very body that the dominant order seeks to suppress and perhaps eliminate be an effective method of protest? Abbasgholizadeh: It can be many other things, and nudity is among them. I believe nudity is a very Western strategy for everything [in Western society] to revolve around sensationalism and media. The mainstream media loves to create excitement for society and sell it, so it covers news that excites people; this can be one method, but is it the best method? In a society like Iran where we do not have free media that can attract this much attention and even go after these things, and the system is not like capitalist societies; there are many other ways to create empathy. Those ways are closer to social norms. Ms. Paygamberzadeh, here the discussion of ineffective excitement arises. An action that can create excitement but cannot be effective or bring about change, and Ms. Abbasgholizadeh, of course, speaks of social norms, which I do not know how important a factor it is in social struggles. Nevertheless, do you think in a society where a significant percentage of people are traditional, this method can connect with citizens? Paygamberzadeh: Well, I think all social changes follow a social excitement that arises, and creating social excitement is not inherently a bad thing, and any social change that occurs must rely on mainstream media and social media to be seen. If individuals can express their rights over their bodies using their bodies, I think it is the most natural form of protest, and of course, in every society, its content is different, and it is not supposed that exactly the same thing that happens in the U.S. or European countries should happen in Iran. It is also very important that there is an alternative and different display of the female body to protest against the commodified view of the female body. Whether in capitalism or in the traditional view, for example, Islam. Well, when we want to challenge social norms, we do not need to align with social norms. It makes no sense to challenge social norms in a way that aligns with them; otherwise, we must accept that, for example, like reformists, we want to create a small change over a hundred years. Cultural work and social change are supposed to challenge social norms and are supposed to create change in these social norms. I think this experience has been a successful one. Abbasgholizadeh: You see, breaking norms is not just about tearing our clothes. We have this in our Iranian culture and literature that when someone reaches a very high excitement, they tear their clothes. For example, when you see some women mourning, they pull off their hijabs or tear their clothes; no one comes and says, 'Why are you doing this?' They accompany them, but the issue is that nudity can change the norm just as much as a hijab-wearing woman's singing can. A few years ago, there was a woman who, while fully hijab, very elegantly started singing on one of the foreign television channels in a singing competition, and this shocked society, making them wonder how she could both cover herself and show her voice to the people, or for example, we have pictures of women who, even though they wear a hijab, kiss each other. This itself is a shock regarding the rights of women who want to be Muslim and also have a desire for their same gender. This breaks the norm. Breaking norms has many different methods that can create sympathy. Nudity does not work in Iran [because] we have a rich culture of shame. Even when you are covered, you must present a specific framework. You must present the behavior of a modest woman, and this is happening without society needing to abandon all its traditional and Islamic beliefs. We should not bring society to a point where it has to choose between its religion and its rich culture and being progressive. One of the most important things, dear Ms. Fahimeh, is that we do not have a civil society or an enlightened society that can explain a protest or emotional movement. This is our main problem. When the girls of the revolution went up and put their hijabs on a stick, they wanted to say, 'Well, you say I should wear a hijab? I do not want to wear it. The hair you say I should cover, I do not want to cover.' They engaged society with themselves, but there is no follow-up of a persistent and coherent campaign that can actually turn this display into a consciousness and social choice. We need to look systematically at protest movements. We cannot create change just with a performance or a display that aims to break the norm. Ms. Paygamberzadeh, with these examples that Ms. Abbasgholizadeh mentioned, we can ask which method? Protesting against the oppression of the female body with the hijab, which is one of the important tools for controlling the body and feminine identity, or protesting by nudifying this body? Paygamberzadeh: The issue is that I do not think we have a rich Islamic or Iranian or traditional culture in any other society that we are supposed to preserve. I think all societies have a culture of patriarchal oppression that these cultures are supposed to change, and we are not obligated to preserve this part of the culture. [We are not obligated] to constantly reproduce this culture to make our society accept us and to bring forth some of our demands, we should not reproduce that other part which is now Islamic or traditional or national. For example, when women come to talk about their right to expose their breasts, they challenge the dualistic view of the female and male body that exists. What is discussed in queer theory. They are overturning that gender order, and I do not think we are obliged to constantly reproduce the past in our social protests and to focus on how to make our society accept us and gradually bring about social changes in a way that society connects with it; we should challenge the foundations of social beliefs. Well, we have an example in this regard, and that was when Golshifteh Farahani, a cinema actress, published her nude photos; some believed that these photos and this action spoke more than a hundred articles about the oppression of the female body and brought it to light. However, opponents fiercely attacked her. Now, regardless of whether Ms. Farahani had any protest goals or not, I want to ask you whether you consider such an action effective in breaking the taboo of the female body? Paygamberzadeh: I think yes, it has a significant impact on society. Not because people necessarily accept this action, but because it generates social discussion and, as Mahbubeh said, creates shock. It is important that civil society is ready to utilize this shock that has arisen and use this discussion space to challenge social values or oppressive social structures. Ms. Abbasgholizadeh, Ms. Paygamberzadeh says that to protest, one must be radical. That is, for example, these protest methods like nudity. Perhaps you would like to respond to this point, and the point I will raise with you is that opponents of nudity as a protest refer to the separation of public and private spheres; do you have any comments on this? Abbasgholizadeh: Society has reached a point where being radical causes a disconnection from my culture. It makes me rootless. What is wrong with wanting to bring some things that are customary in society into my life while also wanting to have a free life? When society reaches the point it has now in Iran, where girls stand on Instagram dancing and also go to eat Sholeh Zard during Ashura and Tasu’a and watch mourning ceremonies. From this perspective, I question radicalism altogether. It is not necessary that if I have relationships in my private world that differ greatly from the standards of the person next to me, I stand up straight and do what they oppose and create shock for them.