Simin Behbahani: A Unique Combination of Poetic Talent, Knowledge, Compassion, and Humility

On August 19, the anniversary of Simin Behbahani's death, she remains the most significant name among women ghazal poets in Iran over the past half-century. Not only was she praised for her brilliant poetry, and the complex and difficult meters that became soft and delicate in her expert hands, but she also gained fame for her social life—at least in the last two decades of her life—due to her courage in expressing civil and political demands and her continuous support for movements advocating for women's rights in her homeland. This renowned contemporary Iranian poet passed away in 2014 at the age of 87, leaving behind twenty published books. In this week's program 'Distant View - Close View,' I invited Masoud Ahmadi, a poet, writer, and literary critic residing in Tehran, to reflect on Simin Behbahani's poetry and some of her literary achievements. However, before that, I would like to share a part of a poem by Simin read in her own voice during one of my interviews with her in a previous episode of this program. 'My whole heart desires you ||| My whole body longs for you. Come and step into my eyes ||| For all this is waiting for you. How good and how lovely, how dear ||| You are the best, you are the finest. What a great fortune is his companion ||| The one who was beside you one night. I do not consider profit and loss ||| Whatever you say, I will do. Say to stay or say to die ||| My will is your choice.' Welcome, Mr. Ahmadi, to this week's 'Distant View - Close View,' which is dedicated to reviewing Simin Behbahani's poetry. Our contemporary poet who passed away on August 19, 2014, in Tehran. Let me start with my first question: In the post-Nima era, what do you think is the reason for the importance of a poet like Simin Behbahani, who remained loyal to the metrics and rhymes of the pre-Nima era? I believe that good poetry has that essence which, if the poet is skilled in their craft, that poem—regardless of its form—is good poetry. Whether it is metered or free verse, new poetry or prose poetry (I use this term to refer to prose poetry). In this period, we also have great ghazal poets who, fortunately, if they have used the forms of the past, their works contain new thoughts and themes, including Ms. Behbahani. I would like to add that not every prose poem, every free verse poem, or every Nima-style poem is necessarily better than a good classical poem. Many of these poems written under the name of free verse or prose poetry are often very mediocre and trivial works. Therefore, I do not view Ms. Behbahani from this perspective, just as I do not view Professor Hossein Behjat. If you remember, he initially wrote Nima-style poetry, had some experiences in prose poetry, and his famous poem 'Dears, the caravan has set out...' is well-known. But today, he is one of the masters of ghazal in this land. Regarding Ms. Behbahani, I think she followed the path she needed to take and left behind brilliant works. Twenty collections of poetry remain from Ms. Behbahani, published continuously from 1951 to the present. However, many critics and writers have referred to her as the Nima of ghazal, meaning they compared her position in contemporary poetry to that of past poetry, calling her the Nima of ghazal. What is the reason for this? What did Ms. Behbahani add to Persian ghazal that makes her deserving of such a title? If you allow me, I would like to briefly state that I believe her first poetry collection, 'Footprints,' includes poems from 1946 to 1956. In her next book, 'Chalcharagh,' which contains poems from 1956 to 1957, if I am not mistaken, she has a preface in which she expresses regret for publishing these books, mentioning their rawness, immaturity, and flaws. However, she also states that she opened her heart to her people with these raw poems, comforting and encouraging herself. I consider this expression of regret a very prominent moral characteristic of a great artist. What does this mean? It means they are not satisfied with their work. An artist who is satisfied with their work is finished; they are no longer an artist. From here, Ms. Behbahani reaches the brilliant ghazals of the book 'Dasht-e Arjen.' I believe its first edition was around 1982. It truly contains brilliant ghazals. The poetry completely adheres to the rules and regulations of classical poetry, showing that Ms. Behbahani was fully mastered in the meters of classical poetry, in rhetoric, rhyme, and prosody. Mr. Ahmadi, in addition to the meters she proposed or modified—an innovative and creative modification—she initiated a movement called 'New Ghazal,' which still has many followers and supporters in the Persian language and Iranian poetry. How much do you think Ms. Behbahani's innovations contribute to the Persian language and enrich our contemporary poetry treasury? Masoud Ahmadi: 'Simin Behbahani, by expressing social issues in the form of ghazal, with very beautiful imagery and avoiding slogans, left a valuable legacy; she first clarified that ghazal or qasida or metered poetry is not necessarily old poetry. Conversely, she proved that any free verse, post-Nima, post-structuralist, or whatever, is not necessarily better than a ghazal.' Masoud Ahmadi: 'Let me first say one thing. I know, I can identify that Ms. Behbahani studied so well, the weight of Persian poetry from ancient times, perhaps from the first poems written in the Dari language, she studied and continuously advanced. However, what you mentioned is the issue here. She took some weights that very old poets had experimented with and which were not accepted—meaning they were not to the taste of the readers of that day—and set them aside. She skillfully transformed them into weights that became appealing to today's audience. This is from a formal perspective. You are also aware that these metrical forms that our classical poets have today date back to the era of the Samani poets in the 4th century AH, from the early poets whose names are mentioned in the 'Tazkira' of Sistan, like Abu Hafs Sogdian. Their poetry had neither intellectual maturity nor technical sophistication. But from the time of the Samani period onwards, in the 4th century and beyond, you have poets like Shahid Balkhi, who is the master of Rudaki, and his famous ghazal 'I swear by your soul and a difficult oath, that I will never turn away from you, nor will I hear a warning...' and so on. Gradually, thoughts became more sophisticated due to the experience of the works of ancient Greek philosophers and the emergence of more complex, scholarly, and precise mysticism, leading to the creation of the ghazal that Hafez sits at the top of. When you look at Ms. Behbahani's book 'Dasht-e Arjen' or 'Khat-i ze Sor'at va az Atash,' you see how skilled she is and how beautiful images she has created, and how delightful these poems are, which is truly astonishing. However, the term used by the linguist Professor Ali Mohammad Haqshenas, who gave this title to Ms. Behbahani, calling her the 'Nima of Persian poetry,' I find a bit unfounded. The Nima of Persian ghazal... Yes, the Nima of Persian ghazal. I consider this title, with all due respect, not correct. Many may agree, and that’s fine. But truly, it is after her that other ghazal poets emerge, such as Hossein Manzavi, who has several very beautiful ghazals: 'You and I are those two lines, yes | Parallel in our helplessness...' Do you remember? Look at the beautiful combination of 'Parallel in our helplessness.' These are a generation that has come in continuity; they have not appeared suddenly. They were not only aware of the literary history of Persian literature and language but also had some mastery over it. Another point I want to mention about Ms. Behbahani in this conversation is the themes she addresses. She was perhaps one of the first to introduce themes into ghazal that were very contemporary, everyday, and part of people's lives. In this regard, she is very similar to what happens in Persian poetry after Nima in terms of themes, meaning bringing poetry closer to the world of people, to life, to the everyday life of the people who are the audience of this poetry. I think this is one of the great merits of Ms. Behbahani's poetry. What do you think? Exactly. It is just as you say. From the time she began writing poetry, she had social and public concerns. In her book 'Footprints,' we see that her poems are entirely social, and sometimes their political aspect is very pronounced. This continues. The rawness she admits to in the preface of her next book, 'Chalcharagh,' disappears. Both in terms of intellect and language. Therefore, she follows a path with contemplation and reflection. She has not fallen into self-praise, self-admiration, or self-importance. She has learned like every great artist. I think if she were alive today and you asked her, she would not express satisfaction with her work. This is a condition for an artist's growth. Yes, in her later poems, with more finesse, she moves beyond the slogan-like aspects of some poems in 'Footprints,' and similarly progresses with more mature themes, with more beautiful images, and with cleaner, more precise language and meter. When she also innovates, as I mentioned, she skillfully modifies those weights that were not widely accepted, while still maintaining social themes. The line I read from 'Manru,' its ending is, see how beautifully it is said: 'What a tragic fate, that the small silkworm spent its whole life weaving a cage, yet longed to fly.' These are backed by cultural heritage. They are behind Simin Behbahani. I think we should also consider the virtues of the artist, her moral virtues. An artist like Hafez, who can be the crown of world poetry—if we do not judge, we say he can be—this person, you know, in all the tazkiras written after him, it is said that he was aware of all the rational and transmitted sciences of his time. You know he studied philosophy. Despite the fact that since the 5th century AH, since Imam Muhammad Ghazali wrote the book 'Tahafut al-Falasifa,' reading and philosophical contemplation was forbidden, and philosophers were placed among the heretics and infidels. But this man studied philosophy. And so on. The Diwan of Hafez, which Mr. Khorramshahi has compiled, lists his references and allusions to the Quran and Hadith, etc., and one of them states that this free man was a Muslim but a free and very brave person. It is no joke to say in the time of Amir Mobariz al-Din that they closed the tavern and said, 'O God, do not approve of it, that they open the house of hypocrisy and deceit.' This is courage. This is a moral virtue. This audacity is one of the characteristics or moral traits of a great artist that Ms. Behbahani possessed to the utmost. We know that in post-Nima poetry, perhaps the names of two women became the most prominent among our female poets: one is Forough Farrokhzad and the other is Simin Behbahani; who had the fortune of living a relatively long life and producing many works in the Persian language. Not much has been said about Forough, but what do you think Simin has for today's poets, especially younger poets? How necessary is it for her works to be read by poets interested in Nima-style poetry, even if not necessarily ghazal? What does Simin Behbahani have for today's poets? Unfortunately, unfortunately... It is truly lamentable that most young poets today, I do not say all, but a significant majority, have no familiarity with the poetry and literature of their predecessors. Not only with poetry and literature but also have no proper acquaintance with the Persian language. However, we name poets who are well-read, who research the works of greats from every poetic school. Ms. Behbahani, by expressing social issues in the form of ghazal, with very beautiful imagery and avoiding slogans, left a valuable legacy, a valuable legacy. She first clarified that ghazal or qasida or metered poetry is not necessarily old poetry. Conversely, she proved that any free verse, post-Nima, post-structuralist, or whatever, is not necessarily better than a ghazal. Good poetry can be a ghazal, it can be prose poetry, it can be new poetry or Nima-style poetry. She conveyed this to society. And for young people, if someone wants to write ghazal and loves to do so, they must have the capability, and they should definitely read Ms. Behbahani's collections, especially her later collections, particularly 'Khat-i ze Sor'at va az Atash' and 'Dasht-e Arjen,' so they do not fall into repetition. They should see new themes, new imaginations, and language appropriate to the themes. This is not a small legacy. Even though I am older than her, I still occasionally visit her poems, sometimes browsing through her selected poems. Let me add one more thing, Mr. Ghasemfar. I have had the honor of visiting the late master Behbahani three or four times. Of these three or four times, twice were for several hours. I was her guest, Mr. Akhavan was there, and Professor Mohammad Hoqouqi was there. I was a budding poet whom Mr. Hoqouqi kindly took there. You cannot imagine how kind she was. How compassionate she was. How self-restrained she was. Some disagreements, unfortunately, between our great poets, in their behaviors, their disagreements, their differences in taste...