Surrendering Does Not Mean Defeat

"Surrendering does not mean defeat, but rather condemns a heartless government." This is part of the statements from three university professors in Hong Kong who founded the Occupy movement in central Hong Kong and endured for over two months in that location. Now they say they want to enter a new phase of the movement and have decided to surrender to the police. While the leaders of the Occupy movement have decided to dismantle their tents and focus on strengthening their networks, one of the accompanying groups, the Hong Kong Student Movement, remains the largest group still on the streets, and since Monday, some of its leaders have gone on hunger strike. Regarding the latest developments in Hong Kong and its history, Hannah Kavyani has spoken with Lee Cheuk-yan. Mr. Lee, 58, is a member of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong and is also a member of the Labour Party and trade unions, recognized as one of the pro-democracy advocates in Hong Kong. Mr. Lee, before we discuss the protests in the streets of Hong Kong, you are a member of the Legislative Council of Hong Kong and also a pro-democracy activist. Could you explain how you manage both roles? I have personally been working towards democracy for a long time, about thirty years. We were striving for this before the handover from Britain to China; unfortunately, Britain did not implement democratic changes, and more than 1997 (the time of the handover), only half of the Legislative Council was elected by the people, and I can say that after 97, the Chinese government inherited a kind of British colonial system, and to this day, there is no democracy in Hong Kong. And 17 years after the handover, today we are in such a situation with the Legislative Council, of which I am also a member. Half of the members are elected by the people, and the other half are chosen by influential individuals in professional and economic fields with close ties to Beijing. As a result, you can understand how little space there is for the people to elect representatives, and for this reason, we are calling for change. You say there is no democracy in Hong Kong. But when we compare the situation with mainland China, we see that people enjoy freedoms such as the freedom to assemble or protest in Hong Kong. How do you assess this? What is your opinion on this difference? Well, certainly under the "one country, two systems" formula, a kind of autonomy was granted to Hong Kong, and there is freedom of assembly, expression, and press. As a result, this is why we can organize marches or gather civil society to achieve democratic goals. In China, there is not even minimal freedom of expression; Chinese pro-democracy advocates who have exercised their right to freedom of expression have all been imprisoned, including Nobel Peace Prize winner Liu Xiaobo, who was sentenced to eleven years in prison and has been incarcerated for five years. Therefore, in comparison, Hong Kong is certainly different from China, but nevertheless, we are also engaged in a half-democracy in Hong Kong. The Chief Executive of Hong Kong is not elected by the people. We want to change this, and the Chinese government had promised that we could directly elect the Chief Executive in 2017, and we were waiting for a change. Exactly, China promised this direct election and granting voting rights to the people of Hong Kong at the time of the handover from Britain, and now the protests of the past few months are due to Beijing's decision to impose more oversight on elections. Given this situation, is there a way forward? It is regrettable that the Chinese government made this decision through the National People's Congress. The decision is that perhaps we may have the right to vote, but the Chinese government handpicks the candidates for us, under the pretext of maintaining national security; because public voting in Hong Kong might lead to the election of a pro-democracy leader. We want the Chinese government to retract its decision to oversee elections and allow the people of Hong Kong to have their own political system. The 65 days of the Hong Kong Occupy movement want this, but unfortunately, Beijing has not responded to these requests, and we have not received any specific proposals from the executives of Hong Kong that would satisfy us to take steps toward achieving democracy. You are a member of the Labour Party and work with unions. We have heard more about the Occupy movement on one side and the students on the other in the protests in Hong Kong. Can we take a look at the groups that have pushed the protests in Hong Kong so far? Yes, the Occupy and the students and their leaders are a large part. However, civil society, regardless of political classifications and parties, advocates for women's rights and some churches, all support the pro-democracy movement of the students. Many of the protesters in the streets are young people. A new generation of activists has emerged in Hong Kong, young people who do not necessarily remember previous protests but are angry about the central government's decisions regarding elections. Alongside these young people, there are certainly older groups who have years of experience in pro-democracy activities. How do these two groups work together? You belong to a generation that remembers Tiananmen from twenty-five years ago, while this new generation does not necessarily know anything about it. Do you not have disagreements with this young generation? Yes and no. There are tactics that can be agreed upon by all. For example, we were very happy that the people of Hong Kong could come out into the streets and occupy places in the city to show their dissatisfaction to the rulers of Hong Kong. People are trying to use civil disobedience tools that the government calls illegal actions to strive for democracy. However, there are certainly differences of opinion. For example, how far we should continue an action. We and certainly the students always emphasize peaceful and non-violent movement. But there are those who believe we should be tougher and use more extreme protest methods. As a final question, Mr. Lee, this protest movement in Hong Kong has lasted for several months and has attracted the attention of the international community. What outlook do you see for this movement? Can this movement achieve its demands or part of them? We are aware of this issue; achieving what we want is very difficult; that the National People's Congress of China changes its decision. Therefore, we may not achieve what we want today, but certainly, successes have been made, and that is the awakening of a new generation in Hong Kong. You cannot fight with the young generation for a long time. They grow up and continue pro-democracy efforts, and their numbers will increase in the future. Therefore, we may not win this battle, but in the long run, we will win because the people have awakened.