The Dream of a Better Life at Reza Daqati's Dinner Party

Host: Reza Daqati Guests: Nelson Mandela, Ahmad Shah Massoud, Benazir Bhutto, Nasrin Sotoudeh, one of the mothers of Laleh Park Music: Ey Ensanlar by Alim Qasimov Dinner: Tabriz Koofteh This week's host is Reza Daqati, one of the most renowned Iranian photojournalists globally, collaborating with the prestigious National Geographic. He studied architecture, but the Iranian Revolution turned him into a photojournalist, with his images from this event published in international magazines like Newsweek. He states that through photography, he narrates the story of contemporary humanity, using it as a tool to advance humanitarian goals and fight against oppression and tyranny. He has been present in most wars and revolutions over the past decades in various countries, reflecting the pain and suffering of people, especially women and children. Daqati has received significant awards, including the National Order of Merit from France. After the revolution, he was forced to leave Iran and currently lives in Paris, where I interviewed him in his office. Reza Daqati is one of the most famous Iranian photojournalists globally, collaborating with the prestigious National Geographic. He studied architecture but became a photojournalist due to the Iranian Revolution. After the revolution, he was forced to leave Iran and has received significant awards, including the National Order of Merit from France. Mr. Reza Daqati, welcome to the show. Please tell us whom you would like to invite for dinner. You see, my dear, you are a journalist and have been to various places and met many people. The first thought that comes to my mind is that if possible, I would invite thousands of unknown people whose photos I have taken and who have invited me to their homes. If you allow me, I would like to invite a few thousand of them. It’s a dinner party, and there isn’t enough space for all those people; you would need to rent a football stadium! Yes, you are right. But if the idea is to gather a few people for dinner and talk together, I thought I would invite Nelson Mandela, then Ahmad Shah Massoud, who was a friend of mine, Ms. Benazir Bhutto, and Ms. Nasrin Sotoudeh because I know the discussions will be very interesting. Then, representing all the mothers I have seen who suffered in wars—because those who truly suffer in wars are women and mothers the most—I wanted to invite one of the mothers who gather in Laleh Park. On behalf of all the mothers who, as you said, suffer in the world and whom you have photographed... Exactly. I will ask you later, and our audience will want to know why Reza Daqati is interested in these five people. But before that, I want to know what music you would like to play for the dinner. Reza Daqati: Ey Ensanlar Selected music: Ey Ensanlar (O Humans) Album: Deep Ocean of Love By: Alim Qasimov One of the musicians I listen to a lot, besides our masters Shahram Nazeri and Shajarian, is Alim Qasimov. I have known him closely for years and admire his work. He is from Azerbaijan? Yes, he is from Baku. One of his very impactful works is "Ey Ensanlar"; O Humans. I thought for the guests I invited and the dinner that will revolve around the issue of humanity, this song with its name would be appropriate. I think the name of the song is also indicative, and it is supposed to sing about humanity. Yes, that’s right. Now let’s return to the guests you selected. First, you mentioned Nelson Mandela, the leader of the South African liberation movement. Guests of Reza Daqati: Nelson Mandela Nelson Mandela (1918-2013): South African politician and civil rights activist. Background: A prominent opponent of apartheid, President of South Africa, Secretary-General of the Non-Aligned Movement. Honors: Nobel Peace Prize 1993. Reason for invitation: What Mandela did was essentially to maintain resistance in prison. This person, who was told he could be free, said no, as long as I do not achieve my goals, being in prison or not is not the issue. What Mandela did was to ensure that resistance—a word that is very important to me—existed in prison. Since I was in prison for several years and saw torture and so on, I know what the story is. This person, who was told he could be free, but said no, the issue is achieving my goals. Then, it can be said that now thousands of Mandelas have emerged in Africa. Since I travel a lot for my work, I see how deep this person's impact has been, and someone who can guide so many young people towards resistance in the right way is a very great and noble person. After he was released from prison, he forgave everyone for the benefit of Africa and to improve the situation, which is also a great act. It is very important what Mandela has done in the world. Many of those who are my guests tonight have done historically significant work, and many of them do not even know it. The guests around the table do not realize how important their actions are in the history of humanity. Your second guest is Ahmad Shah Massoud, who was your friend, and I know you spent many years with him during the Afghan resistance. Guests of Reza Daqati: Ahmad Shah Massoud Ahmad Shah Massoud (1953-2001): Military commander in Afghanistan. Fame: Lion of Panjshir. Background: Commander of the Mujahideen against the Red Army, Commander of the United Front against the Taliban, Minister of Defense in the Mujahideen government. Reason for invitation: In my opinion, he is among those who, with a poetic and humanitarian heart, were forced to fight. A person like Gandhi who had to wear military clothes. Ahmad Shah Massoud is one of those historical figures we refer to in our history, for example, Abu Muslim Khurasani, Babak Khorramdin, or Mossadegh. Ahmad Shah Massoud is one of those people, like Gandhi; I truly say this. In my opinion, Ahmad Shah Massoud was a person like Gandhi who had to wear military clothes because the one he faced was not Britain, which Gandhi knew he could fight with his method. But when the Russians occupied Afghanistan, or the Taliban occupied Afghanistan, you had to wear military clothes. Massoud often showed me his uniform and said, "Reza, you see what they forced us to wear." As soon as we found some leisure time, the first thing we would do is take out poetry books. We would read Rumi, Bidel, who is very famous among Afghans, like our Hafiz. We would read Hafiz and Saadi. Ahmad Shah Massoud loved Hafiz very much. In my opinion, he is among those who, with a poetic and humanitarian heart, were forced to fight. But when he decided to fight, he went all the way and brought the largest army in the world to its knees. There was a time when we were stuck in a cave. Russian planes had bombed heavily. Massoud and I were alone in a cave and talking. His first statement was, "Reza, we will drive these Russians out of Afghanistan." It was 1985. At that time, Russia, which was called the Soviet Union, was an empire and had a hundred thousand soldiers in Afghanistan, and when their planes came, the sky would turn black. I thought to myself, look at this young man... sitting here in a cave on a mountain and saying he will defeat them... I said, well, okay, definitely... no one believed it at that time... no one in the world believed it. Until seven or eight months before the fall of the Berlin Wall, no one believed that the Soviet Union would fall like that... I said, well, after you say you defeated the Russians and they left Afghanistan, what will happen? Before he could answer me, I suddenly saw him lost in thought, in a very upset and contemplative state... he said, "The future of Afghanistan will be good if we can form a confederation like Switzerland; otherwise, war will continue among us." I said, after the Russians leave, what job do you think you will keep for yourself... he slightly lowered his head and said, "You see down there, there is a village..." he said, "I pray to God that Afghanistan becomes free and I become the teacher of that village." A person who can think of such a thing immediately in such conditions, in my opinion, is a lasting human being, and we see the impact of his actions. This is why I say one of the reasons for the fall of the Berlin Wall and the collapse of the Soviet Empire began with their defeat in Afghanistan. That is, the vulnerability of this empire started from there. Exactly. Your third guest is Benazir Bhutto, the former leader of Pakistan, who also lost her life. Guests of Reza Daqati: Benazir Bhutto Benazir Bhutto (1953-2007): Pakistani politician. Background: Prime Minister of Pakistan in 1988-90 and 1993-96. Reason for invitation: In a country like Pakistan, where there is still so much superstition and backwardness against women, suddenly a woman came to participate in elections. One of the important things about Benazir Bhutto for me was that the issue of women's freedom was very important to her. I have known Ms. Benazir Bhutto since her early days, thirty years ago, when she came to Pakistan as a young student and started her activities against Zia-ul-Haq, who was a dictator and caused much distress among the people of Pakistan. I saw a young female student who had come and started her electoral activities. Especially in a country like Pakistan, where there is so much superstition and backwardness against women, suddenly a woman came to participate in elections. The speeches she made, and I accompanied her for several months until the elections, and the story continued, and we met several times. You who were with her during the election campaign, what kind of person was she? You see, one of the important things about Benazir Bhutto for me was that the issue of women's freedom was very important to her. This is one of the important issues that we need to address in our countries, in Islamic countries and the Middle East, so that women can take more and more power into their hands. I think one important thing that can somehow help our societies emerge from the state they are in, that is, the terrible stagnation and backwardness we are trapped in the Middle East, Iran, and other countries, is that women can take more and more work into their hands. Did Benazir Bhutto take pride in her Iranian heritage, as her mother was Iranian? Her mother, Nasrat Khanum, was Iranian, and I have seen her. I still remember that at Benazir Bhutto's wedding, where I was invited, the first thing she did was say, "Come here, Reza, let me introduce you to all your fellow townspeople," meaning the Iranians. Benazir Bhutto spoke little Persian, but her mother, Nasrat Khanum, and I would sit together and speak Persian. Your fourth guest is Ms. Nasrin Sotoudeh, a lawyer in Iran. Guests of Reza Daqati: Nasrin Sotoudeh Nasrin Sotoudeh (1963-): Lawyer, attorney, and social activist. Fame: Advocacy in many recent human rights cases and receiving the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought. Reason for invitation: As long as there are people like Ms. Sotoudeh in the world, I believe the future of humanity is secure. Because Ms. Sotoudeh has stood firm in the worst conditions. One of the things I said I wanted to take advantage of this table you have opened for us is to invite those whom I truly want to see and am proud of their existence. As long as there are people like Ms. Sotoudeh in the world, I believe the future of humanity is secure. Because Ms. Sotoudeh has stood firm in the worst conditions. You know the work she did at that time and is still doing; perhaps no one knows yet that the things she did and wrote will remain not only in the history of Iran but also in the history of the world. The presence of women is important in these matters, as I mentioned earlier, like Ms. Shirin Ebadi, like Ms. Sotoudeh, and others who have managed to operate in this country, which is essentially like a prison, a prison with an open roof surrounded by walls; we know who the jailers are, and they are criminals. Being a criminal does not mean that a person takes a knife and stabs someone. These people have ordered the killing of thousands of people. In these conditions, Ms. Sotoudeh is commendable, and representing all Iranians who resist inside and outside, I would like to invite her if she accepts to come to dinner here with us. I think Ms. Sotoudeh would be very happy to see you because the work you have done in photography and traveling to various places in the world, Ms. Sotoudeh will surely be happy to see you. Very well, now your last guest, whom you said you want to invite on behalf of all grieving mothers, is one of the mothers from Laleh Park in Tehran. Guests of Reza Daqati: Mothers of Laleh Park Mothers of Laleh Park (2009-present): Social movement of mothers of victims of the 2009 protests. Reason for invitation: On behalf of all the mothers who have lost their children during this time and were killed. You know, those who suffer the most in wars and even in ordinary problems are women. Men or soldiers...