The 'Thunderstruck' Movement of Iranian Women: An Interview with Asia Amini

It has been 37 years since the last demonstrations by Iranian women on March 8, International Women's Day. According to Iranian women activists, the wave of repression against social activists has continued with ups and downs since then, preventing any practical action by Iranian women in achieving equal rights and even what officials of the Islamic Republic refer to as 'gender justice.' For years, on International Women's Rights Day, March 8, all Iranian women's activities have been limited to holding a few seminars and speeches in some restricted meeting halls, events that are sometimes canceled just an hour before they are supposed to take place. What are the signs of a movement in a society? Can we imagine that there is still a movement called 'the women's movement' in Iran? We sat down with Asia Amini, a women's rights activist residing in Norway, to once again search for the identity of the Iranian women's movement. Ms. Amini, let’s start with the term 'women's movement.' Why 'movement' and why 'women' and not, for example, 'feminist movement' or any other name? In principle, there should not be a fundamental difference between the two. Perhaps historical and situational reasons have had more influence in choosing the name women's movement than conceptual reasons. For example, in a society where the government uses all propaganda and promotional tools to turn a concept and a word into a counter-value, it is difficult for you to turn this counter-value into a value with unequal resources. The word feminism in our social literature has not even been considered a social value until today; on the contrary, it has been constructed as a counter-value. If I want to be very honest, I must say that this has even happened to me. Because like many others in this society, I resisted the word feminist for a long time. It took a long time for me to proudly accept that I am, in fact, a feminist. Therefore, the women's movement is, in a way, an Iranized version of the feminist movement. However, in practice, this term has its own history. That is, when you use the feminist movement, you are considering a wide range of countries in the world, but the women's movement is specific to us, with a defined history. Regarding the term movement, it is actually the translation of 'movement.' Of course, in this case, the term movement may also have its own characteristics in Iran. For example, it is pragmatic and field-oriented and has acted more reactively concerning its situation. It relies on activists who both produce ideas in that area and take practical action. For example, they try to change the law, hold educational workshops, create solidarity and convergence among activists, and other things. If we use the term feminist movement, we can imagine the same characteristics for it, with the difference that the feminist movement today in the Western world, in addition to this pragmatism, has produced a wealth of theoretical content in the field of knowledge, which we have not yet entered for various reasons. Although the common border of the women's movement and the feminist movement is gender equality and the movement towards eliminating gender discrimination, they overlap in this area. Another issue is the content and ideological direction of this movement. The women's movement in Iran, in my opinion, is a post-ideological and essentially secular movement, while the feminist movement has leftist roots. Of course, this discussion is lengthy and perhaps beyond this interview. Ms. Amini, looking at Iranian society, where can we find manifestations of this post-ideological and secular movement you mentioned? In the streets? In the media? In bookstores or in universities? If I were to describe the current situation in this framework, I would say we have been struck by lightning in both theoretical and practical fields. With the removal of gender studies courses in universities and after the security crackdown on activists who produced content in the field of gender rights in magazines and online media, we are experiencing a crisis of paralysis and a void after a lightning strike. The same thing happens in the practical field. The geographical dispersion of activists who started together and worked together, the arrest and repression of many activists, the significant silence of some activists, and the government's prevention of any convergence and movement that generates thought in the field of gender equality have caused us to experience paralysis in practice as well. Therefore, if I were to define the current situation, I would say we are in a crisis, but we must think about what comes after the lightning strike. Although I believe that the intellectual current that has generated awareness is not reversible. This awareness and desire for convergence still exist in society and among women. This current may have changed direction or slowed down, but I am very hopeful about the future. Ms. Amini, in practice, however, it seems that activists of the women's movement or those who consider themselves activists of the women's movement in Iran are not as hopeful. We are witnessing increasing pressures on the women's movement in Iran. Any small movement that occurs in Iran or even in neighboring countries puts activists and even their families under severe pressure and multiple interrogations, and they pay a heavy price for it. What do you think is in this exhausted women's movement that the Islamic Republic continues to exert pressure on them? I try to use words more carefully. For example, 'the exhausted women's movement' is somewhat worth examining and reflecting on for me. This caution leads me to conclude that even when I return to my own statement that one of the characteristics of the women's movement is its reliance on its activists, I must add that although its achievements are like an authorless work, the impact that the women's movement has had during its flourishing has caused the demands that are central to the activities of the women's movement to move in society, separate from the activists themselves. We cannot deny that many of the events that are happening in Iranian society today are the result of the expression of desire and need for gender equality over the past two decades. That is, even after the first decade of political and social repression, this desire was able to flourish and be demonstrated. Therefore, I do not subscribe to the notion that the activists of the women's movement may have scattered or been forced into silence or compelled to work underground and in small circles, but the women's movement and its demands, in my opinion, are moving in society even more importantly than before. That you have a broader spectrum of people accompanying your demands to such an extent that it is observable, tangible, and content-oriented is, in my opinion, more important than the actions that activists merely perform. In recent years, what manifestation has this solidarity you speak of, which you consider to be founded by the women's movement in Iran, had? What public movement, action, and demand for gender equality has been raised in recent years in Iran? The fact that Ms. Molaverdi is trying to raise the issue of 'gender justice' in Iranian laws and in Rouhani's government is another matter. But does the social base of Iran show an effort for gender equality? If I were to say that this effort is one that we can show statistics for every day and rely on, saying that this step is being taken, for example, regarding the compulsory retirement of women, or this statement has been issued in response to a certain action of the government, I would say no. In fact, this is the very part that is struck by lightning and in crisis. What I am talking about is merely in the field of awareness. At one time, we said that social media and online media that expand citizen-journalists have the flaw that they hurt the pragmatic and action-oriented part of social movements that seek change in the field. The fact that people sit on Facebook and Twitter and social media means that in practice that energy does not lead to change. But I want to highlight the positive side of this matter. Today, you see that in fewer social networks, discussions about gender issues do not accompany long, controversial conversations at the societal level. This awareness that we are talking about circulates and is discussed every day in these networks; its shortcomings are criticized; its strengths are reproduced and repeated. Although I believe that these are not enough and cannot be relied upon, they are necessary. We need these discussions and criticisms; we must continue them. Because as I said, we do not have academic and university tools to create discussions in feminist and gender rights fields. We have practically lost the practical tools for social activities. If we say that we still have these facilities, we are actually ignoring reality. Therefore, the only way is to use this only remaining tool to spread awareness in this area. This may be the only thing I can say that can be hoped for as a remaining asset. Given that you say the only remaining asset is social networks and we do not have a network of women's movement activities in Iran that we expect public activity and presence from, of course, as someone who is outside the country, I want to say that I am not in that field of action. I think there are people who work in small circles and underground. But my reference is to the external and public form of women's groups' movements. I am also talking about the public discussion. The reality is that in the list of six thousand NGOs that are mentioned, is the word feminism seen in the statutes of ten NGOs? Is there any feminist activity, any part of the women's movement that can operate publicly based on feminist views in Iran? It seems that even in the publishing field, we are witnessing a complete halt in proposing this issue. The books that are published, as far as I have access, are books that critique feminist thought or various branches of feminism. Thus, can we say that we essentially have a women's movement in Iran based on feminist thoughts? I will confirm your statement and also open a parenthesis; when I talk about the remaining asset of the women's movement and refer to the dissemination of awareness in social networks, it is an example of a reality. This does not mean the entirety of that event. I am not in Iran to know, for example, how many women's groups are working or how many women's groups, named or unnamed, official or unofficial, or small or non-small, are working in various civil fields. At one time, results from a series of workshops were published showing that in some areas of Tehran municipality—even in the darkest political periods of Ahmadinejad's government when NGOs were all suppressed and activists were arrested—some women activists managed to hold educational workshops even in some economically deprived areas. Therefore, what I am talking about only relates to that part of the women's movement that is observable and tangible to the general public. That is, for example, the media that work in this field or the publication of reports on activities that are carried out there. Therefore, we are talking in this area. We are not seeing much news in the practical field, from gatherings to workshops and educational sessions, from campaigns that pursued specific objectives and caused the expansion of awareness in that field, and so on, but we are facing a different type with today's human society tools. If the production of books and reports from workshops or documentaries are indicators based on which we can say there is a movement in society, today social networks have also been added, which did not exist ten years ago. Therefore, we can slightly change our definition of indicators. With all the criticisms we can have about networked movements and writings, in social networks, criticism of the women's movement and women's rights activists, for example, in response to the issue of violence, expressing opinions about feminist activities, and other things are ongoing. Therefore, we can conclude that the subject and issue still exist and are important; only the form of discussion has changed. I reiterate that there is no doubt that we are in a crisis and a period of being struck by lightning, but saying that there is no movement in Iranian society means that we have ignored the discourse change that has occurred in Iranian society. Twenty years ago, the issue of gender inequality was never a subject of public discussion in Iranian society. But today you see that, in any case, something is happening; even a feminist may write a text, and dozens of critiques regarding that action or opinion are raised in social networks and media. This is called the vitality of a current, a thought; this is called change compared to twenty years ago. That is why I can be hopeful, despite all the shortcomings we have and despite the lack of opportunities for scientific feminist discussions in universities and despite the fact that the government persistently uses even the word feminism and feminism-phobia to suppress the movement, this discussion continues.