Host: Mohammad Maleki Guests: Mohammad Mossadegh, Ali Shariati, Parvin E'tesami, Hafez Shirazi, and Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar Music: Kiss Me Dinner Menu: Walak Polo This week's host is Dr. Mohammad Maleki. Mr. Maleki was the first president of Tehran University after the revolution and is currently one of the staunch opponents of the Islamic Republic inside the country. He was a university professor during the previous regime and was considered a nationalist activist, spending some time in prison. During the 1979 revolution, Mr. Maleki was one of the organizers of the sit-in of Tehran University professors. When the Cultural Revolution was announced and universities were closed in 1980, he opposed it as the president of Tehran University, calling it a coup. He was sentenced to five years in prison for opposing Ayatollah Khomeini's decree, and Mr. Maleki claims he was severely tortured in prison. In 1999, he was arrested again along with nationalist-religious activists, and in 2009, during the protests against the presidential election results, he was imprisoned for the third time during the Islamic Republic. Despite being around 84 years old and suffering from prostate cancer and other illnesses, he continues to protest against the policies of the Iranian government. He believes there is no significant difference between reformists and hardliners in the Iranian government, and therefore he boycotted the recent presidential election, calling for a referendum for the people to decide whether they want a government based on the rule of the jurist or not. Dr. Maleki is banned from leaving the country, and I spoke with him by phone in Tehran.
About Mohammad Maleki: Mohammad Maleki was the first president of Tehran University after the revolution. He was considered a nationalist activist during the previous regime and spent some time in prison. Despite being around 84 years old, he is one of the staunch opponents of the Islamic Republic inside the country and believes there is no significant difference between reformists and hardliners in the Iranian government.
Mr. Dr. Maleki, welcome to the program. Could you please tell us which five personalities you would like to invite for dinner?
Thank you for having me. It is a very difficult task to choose five of my favorite personalities, but I accepted. The five are: Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh, Ali Shariati, Parvin E'tesami, the wine-loving Hafez, and I also have a poem in mind that I was told belongs to Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar. I have a special interest in him because of this poem.
So your fifth guest is Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar?
Yes.
Now, what music do you want to play for them?
Mohammad Maleki: Kiss Me
Selected music: Kiss Me
Performed by: Hassan Golnaraghi
Lyricist: Haidar Raqabi
Composer: Majid Vafadar
This is a piece of music I have loved since childhood, and I still love it.
Why do you like "Kiss Me"? What memories do you have of it, and what significance does it hold for you?
You see, when this song was played, many rumors circulated among the people. Most people said that one of the colonels who was executed after the coup against Mossadegh recited this poem for his daughter on the night of his execution. This rumor existed, and because of it, people became interested in this song. Its lyrics were beautiful and contemporary, and that's why I liked it...
Now let's return to the guests you invited, and the first personality you mentioned is Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh.
Guests of Mohammad Maleki: Mohammad Mossadegh
Mohammad Mossadegh (1882-1967): Jurist, politician, and Prime Minister of Iran
Fame: Leadership of the oil nationalization movement
Reason for invitation: I somewhat understood the time of Dr. Mossadegh. I was young, emotional, and I really liked Mossadegh and became one of his supporters. I was born in 1933, and that was when Dr. Mossadegh was the governor of Shiraz. Then he was arrested and exiled until 1941. Later, he became the people's representative and opposed giving oil concessions to the Russians in parliament, and then he passed a law that no foreign country should be given oil concessions. Well, I was young, emotional, and healthy, and I really liked Mossadegh and became one of his supporters. Additionally, I am from Tajrish, and at that time, most people from Tajrish were nationalists... So from that time, I became interested in Mossadegh and the work he did, and he became a global model.
So at the time of the coup on August 19, you were about 20 years old, right?
Yes.
Do you remember the details of that event and those days?
I remember the details. One of the things that remains in my memory is the day of the coup. In the days leading up to the coup, that is, August 25, 26, and 27, we were moving from Tajrish and facing numerous difficulties to go to Baharestan Square where people gathered and held meetings... Until the morning of August 28, we Tajrish kids were used to going to Baharestan Square in the mornings to get bread and then we would wander around... That day I saw several tanks standing at the Tajrish intersection. People said in the local language that a coup had happened... We said, what coup... The Shah has fled, and Mossadegh is in power... In short, we saw vehicles full of soldiers and those street people passing through Tajrish, and the market was closed. We realized that a coup had taken place.
Mr. Maleki, now let's move on to your second guest, Ali Shariati.
Guests of Mohammad Maleki: Ali Shariati
Ali Shariati (1933-1977): Iranian writer and sociologist
Works: Return, Fatemeh is Fatemeh, Alavi Shi'ism and Safavid Shi'ism, Islamic Studies, and other works
Reason for invitation: Since he started speaking at Hosseiniyeh Ershad, I became a fan of him and regularly went to Hosseiniyeh Ershad. I got to know him and became friends. But later it became clear to me that some of the issues he raised were somewhat idealistic.
I didn't know Ali Shariati well at first. I knew his father and knew that they had a Quran session in Mashhad and were engaged in religious activities and were considered religious intellectuals. Because I also had a lot of interest in religion and faith at that time, I gradually realized that he had a son named Ali Shariati who was a university professor in Mashhad and had gone to study in France and was arrested upon his return... He gradually started speaking at Hosseiniyeh Ershad, and I became a fan of him and regularly went there... I got to know him and became friends. Unfortunately, he passed away, and his works were published, and now there are about forty to fifty books...
Mr. Dr. Maleki, I wanted to see what the significance of Ali Shariati's ideas is for you and whether those ideas still hold validity?
You see, Dr. Shariati started his work at a specific time. His speech was attractive to the youth. He said things that we now see the opposite of... He said Ali did this, Ali did that, Islam is this, Islam is that... The definitions he gave of Islam from martyrdom... were attractive to me. But after the revolution, we saw that this Islam is something else. The Islam that Shariati introduced and the one that they implemented are different. Without wanting to criticize Shariati, I must say that at that time it was necessary for him to say those things. Even now, I agree with many parts of his words and discussions, and I disagree with some parts. It has practically been proven to me that some of the issues he raised were somewhat idealistic... It was an Islam that cannot be implemented under current conditions or in our country.
The third personality you would like to have at your dinner is Parvin E'tesami.
Guests of Mohammad Maleki: Parvin E'tesami
Parvin E'tesami (1907-1941): Iranian poet
Works: Divan of poems including works such as; The Tear of Petim, Intoxicated and Sober, and other poems
Reason for invitation: Parvin E'tesami lived during the Reza Shah era and wrote poetry in those conditions, most of her poems were about the poor and the helpless. I liked her because she expressed our pain.
Parvin E'tesami was a woman who lived during the Reza Shah era and wrote poetry in those conditions, most of her poems were about the poor, the helpless, etc. I liked her because she expressed our pain. One of Parvin E'tesami's poems that resonated with me, as a child of a worker with a very difficult life... I cherished it and I will now recite a few verses of it: One day a king passed by from a passage/ A shout of joy rose from every street and roof/ He asked one orphan child in the midst/ What is this bright thing that shines on the king's head/ The orphan replied, we do not know what it is/ It is evident that it is as precious as a commodity/ An old hunchbacked woman approached and said/ This is the tear of my eye and the blood of your heart/ Look at the tears of the orphans/ To see where the brightness of the gem comes from/ We have been deceived by the appearance and the shepherd's staff/ This wolf has been familiar with the flock for years.
So your interest in Parvin E'tesami is because her poems resonated with your life and thoughts.
We were kindred spirits. Now, I don't know, they say her father was well-off, etc... But I saw these poems through my own experience, that I had to cry a lot for a pencil for my father to buy it...
We had a story... Our life at that time is worth telling and writing.
Mr. Dr. Maleki, now if possible, let's talk about Hafez.
Guests of Mohammad Maleki: Hafez
Shams al-Din Muhammad Hafez (1315-1390): Renowned Iranian poet
Important work: Divan of Ghazals
Reason for invitation: The importance of Hafez lies in his ghazals. My class and Hafez's class were similar in terms of suffering... They were one and the same.
The importance of Hafez lies in his ghazals. You see, it is said that Iranians usually have three books in their homes: one is the Quran, one is Nahj al-Balagha, and one is the Divan of Hafez. I also became interested because my father sometimes read Hafez, and I borrowed the Divan of Hafez from my friends because I couldn't afford to buy it. Of course, my interest in Hafez does not mean that I do not love other great poets like Saadi, Rumi, Ferdowsi, and others. But... My class and Hafez's class were similar in terms of suffering... They were one and the same. Of course, there is debate about some of Hafez's other poems. For example, when he says: "The domestic wine has been drunk by the fear of the censor/ Let us drink with the beloved and raise the toast" some say that he means the ordinary wine, but some religious people say that it is just a reference and that he means something else and all that.
What is your opinion? What do you think?
I believe that the poems Hafez wrote refer both to the rabab and wine and also to religious issues. But I mostly agree with those who say that Hafez was a person of heart, a lover, and he loved... If you allow me, I will recite one of his poems: Good news has come that the days of sorrow will not last/ Such will not remain, nor will this/ Although I have become humble in the eyes of my beloved/ The rival will not remain so honored either/ When the curtain holder strikes everyone with the sword/ No one will remain in the sanctuary of the shrine/ What place is there for gratitude and complaint about good and bad roles/ Since the inscription of existence will not remain/ The song of the Jamshid assembly has been said to be this/ Bring the cup of wine, for Jam will not remain/ Count it as a bounty, O candle of union with the moth/ For this transaction will not last until dawn/ The wealthy should take the heart of the poor into their hands/ For the treasure of gold and silver will not remain/ In this verdant courtyard, it has been written in gold/ That only the good deeds of the generous will remain/ Do not hope for the kindness of the beloved, Hafez/ For the signs of injustice and oppression will not remain.
This was one of the poems that I, as a suffering person, liked and always recited in gatherings, and I always hoped that this situation would not remain as it is. But unfortunately, we saw that the situation not only remained as it was but got worse.
The fifth guest you invited is Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar.
Guests of Mohammad Maleki: Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar
Mohammad Taghi Bahar (1886-1951): Iranian poet and politician
Fame: Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar
Works: Stylistics, History of Bal'ami, Life of Ferdowsi, History of Sistan, Divan of Poems, and other works
Reason for invitation: There is a poem by Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar about the Sheikh and... that I liked very much because of the ideas I had at that time and still have, and I saw it in Hafez as well. There is a poem by Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar that I liked very much because of the ideas I had at that time and still have, and I saw it in Hafez as well regarding the Sheikh and these things. Additionally, since Bahar is buried in the Zahireh Dolat cemetery, where many poets and writers are also buried, I used to go there and had an interest in Bahar. I will recite a few verses of this poem: I saw in Basra a girl of foreign descent/ Illuminating the city with the light of her beauty/ She was reading the Quran lesson in front of the Sheikh of the city/ And with her coquetry and charm, she stole the Sheikh's heart/ The Sheikh was giving the lesson of "the clear misguidance" to her/ And the tune of the letter 'Dhad' was going to the peak of her perfection/ The girl could not bear the Sheikh's words of 'Dhad'/ With that small bud-like mouth of hers/ The girl answered the Sheikh with "the clear misguidance"/ And the Sheikh was repeating his speech/ I said to the Sheikh, do not pursue this misguidance so much/ For this playful girl will not be deterred from her thoughts/ It is better that you both remain/ She in her playfulness and you in your misguidance.
So it is because of the content of this poem that you are interested in Malek al-Sho'ara Bahar...
I liked him very much. I used to go to his grave and recite this poem.
You are also thinking of a dinner for your guests; what food do you want to serve them?
I want to serve them a Shemiran dish.