Why is Talking About Women's Orgasm Accompanied by Shame and Modesty?

How well does a woman know her sexual anatomy? Why is discussing sexual pleasure or orgasm difficult for women, associated with concepts like shame and modesty, and even considered a taboo? Why do men always find it easier to talk about their sexual experiences and interests? Sudeh Rad, a gender equality activist, and Marmer Moshfeqi, a feminist advocate for women's rights, discuss the taboo of 'orgasm' in this week's episode. Ms. Rad begins the discussion by asking whether we can say that in recent years in Iran, social networks and media outside of Iran have all contributed to increasing sexual and gender awareness among certain groups of people. However, even within these groups, we can see that when it comes to women's sexual pleasure and orgasm, awareness remains limited, and discussing it is still difficult and sometimes even seems inappropriate, fundamentally being a taboo. Why is this the case? Sudeh Rad: Look, now that we are in 2017, we have gone through years and centuries of religious governments. We have religions that suppress sexual pleasure and needs as something commendable, and even that person is sanctified. Those who want to be sacred, those who want to be nuns, decide to give up their sexual pleasure. Women, specifically - when I say women, I mean those who were born as women with female genitalia - still cannot talk about their sexual pleasure, while men's sexual pleasure is one of their greatest prides. Ms. Moshfeqi, what do you think is the reason for this? Marmer Moshfeqi: Religious beliefs, since they have a patriarchal structure, consider sexual relations and anything related to them as sinful and bad. Despite all this, if we want to explore the history of orgasm, in the Middle Ages, even women's orgasm was praised, and it was believed that both men and women should reach orgasm for reproduction, while we know today that this is not true. However, in later centuries, this was taken away from women, and the Victorian woman became one who had to be pure and inaccessible. When we look at this issue, we see that at one time, even religion could have been in favor of women's orgasm, and reviewing this issue has changed, and when we look at all this as a whole, we see that the essence is the patriarchal structure that can sometimes come in the form of culture, sometimes in the form of religion, and sometimes even in the form of irreligion. Ms. Rad, I want to know how much this taboo of orgasm can relate to the taboo of the female body? Do you think the way the female body is presented, or even the issues of shame and terms like modesty regarding women gaining a positive connotation, plays a role in how women or society face the issue of orgasm? Rad: I confirm Ms. Moshfeqi's point that patriarchal culture influences this, and at some point, it manifests itself in religion, but I emphasize that at least today, as I speak with you, I believe that culture and religion are so intertwined in all societies - even in France, this secular society I am talking about - that at some points we cannot delineate whether it is cultural or religious. The same culture that wants women to be in the inner quarters; a place like Iran creates inner quarters where women are present, a place where women have comfort and security, and then these inner quarters are also built for the bodies of women. When a boy is born, he is given all kinds of 'golden' attributes and golden medals for his genitalia, but for women, they suffice with terms like shame or defect or delicacy to refer to the genitalia attributed to women. The extent to which women are seen as complete bodies that are shameful and should not be accessible to everyone - even themselves - causes this issue to become taboo. All of this leads women to not recognize their own bodies. You may recognize your hand in pictures if several hands are together, but how many people are there who can recognize their sexual anatomy with such precision? Recognize the different parts of their sexual anatomy and know what each part is for and what it is made for. Women who have female genitalia are born with a clitoris, the only human organ whose sole purpose is pleasure. How many people know this? If I say these things in Persian, it does not mean that in French society everyone knows these issues. Exactly six years ago in France, we held a campaign to introduce the clitoris to people, and we published large posters that everyone was surprised to see whether this was a clitoris, an onion, or even an octopus. All this pressure and societal ownership over women's sex and sexuality makes women feel ashamed to talk about these issues, feel like they are crossing a boundary that they should not cross. Ms. Rad, before we continue this discussion - which is a very important topic you have opened up - I want to first ask you if men fully know their sexual anatomy? Do you want to say that this [lack of knowledge] is entirely a feminine issue? Rad: What relates to men has reached a point where reproduction has been surpassed, and we have been hearing for years about the increase in male sexual power. For years we have been using Viagra or the blue pill, and now we should be excited that a female Viagra has also entered the market to increase female sexual pleasure, which when we delve into the details, we see bears no resemblance to the function of that pill and is actually the health of women's fertility that has been researched multiple times. Ms. Moshfeqi, you heard Ms. Rad's points and may want to add something about this, but I want to ask you how much women themselves have played a role in the taboo of sexual pleasure and women's orgasm? Moshfeqi: I truly do not think women have played a role alone. From childhood, the conversation about boys' genitalia is different from that about girls. One is given values of gold and millions, and from childhood hears that their genitalia is important and has no shame about it. Surely we have all seen families with boys where this language has been used, for example - I say it easily - they would say 'golden penis,' but we have not heard such words about girls. When a boy runs naked, everyone laughs and is happy, but for a girl, they would throw a cloth around her and immediately say it is a defect. All of this is when a person unconsciously learns and believes it. Ms. Rad, one of the points you mentioned was the increasing female pleasure and the increasing attention to women's sexual health and hygiene. All of this is important, but it has not been prioritized. My question is how aware have women become about this issue? Why, as statistics say, do a significant number of women fake orgasms? What set of factors leads a woman to do such a thing? Rad: First of all, it is good to remind that someone who is masturbating does not have a false orgasm. What does a false orgasm mean? It means when there is always someone else involved, they tell their partner that you brought me to this peak of sexual pleasure, and with the same standard criteria that I have learned from here and there, I send you this message that I have reached my peak of sexual pleasure. A false orgasm is nothing but a stamp of approval on the patriarchal system that prioritizes men and tells them that you are my source of pleasure. In a system where 'penetration' is defined as the only factor of women's pleasure and even the only reason why the female genitalia exists in this form, this [false orgasm] stamps approval on that. Ms. Moshfeqi, what is your opinion about false orgasms? Why do you think women do this? Moshfeqi: A study conducted in 2015 at the University of Auckland identified 63 reasons for expressing false or simulated orgasms. The most important reason was that women wanted to show their partner that he was good in this relationship, not to upset him, not to question his masculinity - because there is a belief that women take longer to reach orgasm or have many quirks to reach orgasm - a sense of superiority arises for many men that we have this skill to bring a woman to orgasm. In the modern world, although men's perspectives have changed, they still have not reached a point of having greater awareness of women. They have only realized that they have a new skill, and that skill is to bring a woman to orgasm. Many fear that they themselves - meaning the woman - are not good in sex and have to have this simulated orgasm to cover that inadequacy in sex, or when they have realized that when they reach real orgasm in their privacy, they behave strangely, their faces change, or they make specific sounds, which may be off-putting to their partner, and for this reason, they avoid reaching real orgasm. Or some have said that they have too much to do and want to finish their tasks, so they have to say they reached orgasm to be able to get back to their tasks, or some have said they are tired. There were many other reasons, and if I were to list them one by one, it would take a long time. Ms. Moshfeqi, from the reasons you mentioned, several questions arose for me. First, you said that it is said women have quirks to reach orgasm. Everyone's ethics and desires certainly affect their sexual pleasure, so achieving that quirk as you mentioned cannot be a bad thing. The other point you mentioned was that among men, it is stated that they have the skill to bring a woman to orgasm. After all, why do you think this statement from men is patriarchal? Moshfeqi: It comes back to the point where the man thinks about himself again. That is, he does this for the woman and her pleasure primarily, but in fact, to gratify that sense of masculinity and that he can do something that another cannot do, another man cannot do, or even this woman may not be able to do for herself. After all, this point is raised that some believe part of sexual pleasure is to feel that this sexual pleasure is something I gave to my partner, whether a woman or a man. Why can this feeling be perceived as patriarchal or matriarchal? Rad: I disagree with this. Taking pride in having a sexual relationship where both parties enter with consent and enthusiasm and all, both or several people come out happy from it, I do not think is patriarchal or matriarchal. That a woman says I have a male partner who has not received sexual pleasure from anyone as much as I have can be a source of pride for that woman. Ms. Moshfeqi, can you elaborate on your perspective? Moshfeqi: Men who are in short-term relationships and are more focused on pleasure-seeking, even when we look at research, we see that a man who is more attractive and handsome has more fans and is more successful in sex, and it reaches a point where this attractiveness, this handsomeness, and these momentary encounters are more focused on the skill of bringing a woman to orgasm - which may not be a bad thing in itself - but is fundamentally based on the idea that I must present myself differently and have control over the situation. Ms. Moshfeqi, from your comments, I can infer that you may be concerned about the aspect of male dominance in a sexual relationship. However, I must say that there are also groups that actually enjoy this dominance in sex. But if we want to move past this discussion, I want to ask Ms. Rad whether orgasm for a woman must only occur with a sexual partner? Many women, for various reasons, do not have or do not want a sexual partner. To what extent and how can these women enjoy their bodies? And how can this pleasure be a respectable pleasure for them, and not a pleasure that is condemned to be hidden and not talked about? Why does society want women to be ashamed of experiencing this type of sexual pleasure, while we see that there are sexual tools in the entire world, tools that help women receive more sexual pleasure?