Women and Nuclear Negotiations

The nuclear negotiations reached a turning point after 12 years, during which women played a very important role. From Catherine Ashton and Helga Schmid to Federica Mogherini and Wendy Sherman, and Marzieh Afkhami. Habib Hosseini Fard, a foreign policy analyst, and Hana Kavyani, a correspondent for Radio Farda who has closely followed these negotiations for the past two years, are our guests today. Let's start with you, Hana. Share your experiences. We know there have been various reactions in Iran regarding the presence of women in these negotiations. What was your observation of women's presence in the negotiations? Hana Kavyani: Of course, we must consider one issue. The perspective on women's presence at such diplomatic negotiation tables is not unique to Iran; caricatures and jokes have been made in other countries as well. Today, we even see in Germany that perhaps a caricature of Ms. Merkel, one of the most powerful women in the world, is drawn, and jokes are made about her. However, what we witnessed in the nuclear negotiations was, on one hand, the very influential presence of women. From American Wendy Sherman to German Helga Schmid, who negotiated on behalf of the European Union, these were some of the most responsible individuals at the negotiation table, and their presence was very significant. Especially Ms. Schmid, who, not only as one of the women but as one of the politicians whose name we have heard less over the years, played a major role; particularly in the final months leading to the agreement, as the drafting of the text was supervised by Ms. Schmid. Mr. Hosseini Fard, what do you think was Ms. Helga Schmid's role in these negotiations? Habib Hosseini Fard: As Ms. Ashton’s deputy and later Ms. Mogherini’s deputy, the reality is that she was practically the producer of many materials for these negotiations. The role that Ms. Helga Schmid played in this regard, and in the end, all six Western countries, along with Russia and China, expressed special thanks to her, is unprecedented in the history of international diplomacy over the past seven or eight years. Ms. Helga Schmid has a famous saying regarding why women are different in the field of diplomacy; she says that we women, considering that our role is still not recognized and we are still looked at with a condescending view, have to start from a weaker position than men, think more about our arguments, and psychologically analyze the other side more to be able to establish ourselves and get our points across. In this regard, in some areas, we can perform stronger than men in negotiations. The reality is that she has also shown that she is more successful in this field. However, Mr. Hosseini Fard, let’s take a broader look. Let’s go back to the beginning of the negotiations with Ms. Ashton and Ms. Federica Mogherini. Was the presence of women in these negotiations truly remarkable? At least from the perspective of Western countries, it could be said that it was somewhat natural. But consider the strong role they played. Starting with Ms. Ashton, who took over these negotiations in 2009 after Javier Solana, despite not coming from a foreign policy background and lacking experience, was entrusted with such a problematic file. It can be said that this file, along with the one related to Serbia and Kosovo, was among Ms. Ashton’s successful cases. Especially regarding Iran, considering the negative view towards women, she had to constantly deal with men who are not so comfortable with women and do not accept women's roles in political matters, especially in the international arena. There were even some indirect insults and disrespect. Let’s not forget that despite her own will, Ms. Ashton, even though we might not agree, sometimes had to be cautious regarding her appearance and other issues to advance negotiations better. However, Mr. Hosseini Fard, after Ms. Ashton, Ms. Mogherini seems to have been one of the more controversial figures in the negotiating team, and even various media outlets asked her about her specific interactions with Mr. Zarif. What differences did Ms. Mogherini and Ms. Ashton have? It can be said that Ms. Mogherini was more experienced in political and international affairs, despite her younger age. Consider that she was once the Foreign Minister of Italy. Her education also focused on the relationship between Islam and politics. Given that Iranian culture is somewhat closer to Italy, it might have facilitated warmer negotiations. Hana, it is noteworthy that while no women were seen in the Iranian negotiating team, it has been said that about 40% of the Iranian journalists were women. Hana Kavyani: Yes, in the Iranian team, we saw the presence of Ms. Afkhami as the spokesperson for the Iranian Foreign Ministry in the final stages. Although she could only be seen by journalists coming from Iran. During the approximately 22 days I was in Vienna for the final round, we did not see Ms. Afkhami at all. However, what you mentioned is correct. The number of female journalists who came from Iran was very significant. Because it is not commonly perceived that such a number of female journalists are active in Iran and that they would come abroad to cover such an important issue. I can confidently say that the main writers for major newspapers in Iran, such as Shargh and Etemad, and the main writers for news agencies like IRNA, ISNA, and Fars were all women, and their around-the-clock activities and the position they hold in news reporting in Iran are truly remarkable. Previously, I asked former Iranian diplomat Hossein Alizadeh about the reason for the male composition of the Iranian negotiating team and whether this male composition was a result of the structure of the Foreign Ministry in Iran or a choice of the negotiating team. Hossein Alizadeh: I believe it is more about the structure of the Foreign Ministry, which has been a male-averse structure since the Islamic Revolution. Despite having educated women in international relations, foreign policy, and law, they have been unable to join the Foreign Ministry. This is a reason for the overall male-averse structure of the Islamic Republic. I can even say that Mr. Zarif, by selecting a female spokesperson for the Foreign Ministry, has taken an initiative to involve women in this foreign policy process, and there are even plans to appoint female ambassadors. However, the reality is that women have not been trained in this area. Or if they have been trained, they have not found a way in. Unfortunately, the environment has been completely male-dominated. Hana, you mentioned the significant presence of female journalists. I think the most important differences between them and other journalists were their coverage limitations. Did you ever feel that these coverage differences created difficulties for them? Hana Kavyani: I can refer back to the time when the initial Geneva agreement occurred. It seemed that Iranian female photographers faced this problem, especially when it came to busy times or when they wanted to take the final photo of the initial Geneva agreement at the United Nations, or in situations where there were many photographers. Those who work in news photography know that there is really no opportunity to position yourself in a scene while considering the limitations or constraints you have. In this regard, I remember that women who wore hijabs faced some difficulties. However, in other respects, no. It really seems that especially due to the many movements that took place during these two years and the constant presence of Iranian female journalists in these negotiations, it seemed that this normalization had occurred. Especially for non-Iranian journalists, who might have initially found the hijab of Iranian women somewhat strange, but by the end, these boundaries had been lifted and did not create significant problems.